The problem with "Carries".

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Zeta

Senior Member

01-15-2010

In DOTA, Carries were physical DPS Champions who started out the game really weak, but finished it really strong.

Mages were characters who started out the game strong, and finished really weak.

In League of Legends, Carries are Physical DPS champions who start out the game OK, and finish it really strong.

Mages are characters who start out the game OK, and finish it really weak.

The scaling between the two types of characters is all screwed up to hell and back. Mages have AoE, sure. But most DPS carries have at least one AoE skill as well (Poppy and Warwick excepted). And it is generally easier to stack attack than it is to stack ability power.

Similarly, physical attacks can crit. With a small investment of gold and runes, a DPS character can be made to crit the vast majority of the time very easily.

What's that you say, physical attacks can be dodged, and magic attacks can't?

Sword of the Divine. It pretty much kills off any attempt to counter DPS with dodge stacking.

I've played games with a great, balanced team, but lost to enemy teams just because they had more physical DPS carries.

I don't know what the council is talking about when they say AoE abilities are overpowered. Maybe on DPS characters. On mages? If not for the little boost they have of being able to attack groups, there would be literally no reason to play a mage. As it is, there's really little point playing a game unless you do not have Udyr, Master Yii, Tryndamere, Katarina, Ashe, Tristana, Shaco, Jax, Teemo, Twitch, Gangplank, Poppy, or Corki on your team.

Conversely, a team comprised of five of the above would perform just fine.

Now look at the items. There are a bunch of physical-based items that add something to the attack. Lifesteal, a DOT, healing reduction, slow.

What items add to magical attacks?

1 - Rylai's scepter. That's it. The strategy and depth of items for casters is nowhere near the same level as DPS-based items.

I think:
* Criticals need to be nerfed, done away with, or have a counter. The system is just too **** broken right now. In most games, critical are supposed to be dependent on luck. In this game, getting 100% critical hits is simply a matter of spending the cash on the gold or runes.

* AP scaling needs to be reworked, possibly buffed for most characters.

And what of tanks you might ask?

Who cares. People just pick a tank and then put carry DPS items on them to make them a slightly tougher carry with ever so slightly less attack power and speed, compounding the problem instead of solving it.

Oh, and also thanks to ability power scaling, it's a gamble as to if your hero can take good advantage of ability power, even if they're a caster.

DPS always get a 1 to 1 ration on attack power.


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smokeD

Senior Member

01-15-2010

I think that mages are powerful enough late game and early game, but I do think that carries are to strong early game. It's fairly annoying playing a mage against a carry that can kill you early game while your spells are on CD.


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LordWalmart

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01-15-2010

the major divide or rather problem is that mages cant do **** to towers late game even if they are stacked


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LordWalmart

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01-15-2010

spells need to be able to hit towers


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GordonS1014

Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordWalmart View Post
the major divide or rather problem is that mages cant do **** to towers late game even if they are stacked
most important thing said all post ^

and dont dare say lichbane


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wellwish3r

Senior Member

01-15-2010

And anyways, a Ryze with 500+ abil power for example can rip you entire team apart in a teambattle without breaking a sweat.


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BoxmanFTW

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Dude you read my mind lol
Ever since this last patch I have noticed an increase in 5 man carry teams, who are mild early game but totally dominate late game

Best team comp right now

1 tank
3 carries
1 support tank/mage


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Xenova

Member

01-15-2010

I agree entirely OP.

One core problem is the champions don't have stats. In DotA carries had horrible early game and could easily be shut down and couldnt walk up to you and 3 shot you like everyone can by level 2 in this game.

But if you let them farm and get to end game comfortably they made you pay for it, but you STILL had a chance to counter by buying lots of CC items like hex stick.


The lack of stats in this game means ANYONE can get ANY items and completely wreck face, the exception being casters.

Carries in this game have amazing early game.. the damage and mobility on most of their spells is RIDICULOUS for hard carries that early.

Summoner spells ruin this whole concept too, what does a carry have to fear when hes farming early and someone attempts to gank them? They can pull off a combo such as cleanse + ghost, cleanse + flash, heal + flash, heal + ghost.

Or **** if its one poor hero trying to gank them.. ignite + rally + skill spam and the so called late game carry just 3 shot someone at level 2.

It's a VERY poorly thought out system and extremely imbalanced. There's a reason this kind of stuff is not in DotA, because it would be absurdly overpowered and no one would play the intelligence heroes.


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Are the mages really THAT weak later game though? Annie, Anivia, Fiddle, Katarina, Gangplank, Karthus, Nunu, and TF are all casters that don't really the "okay then sucks" thing, unless we're talking about a game that goes on for like an hour.


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Xenova

Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkRamen View Post
Are the mages really THAT weak later game though? Annie, Anivia, Fiddle, Katarina, Gangplank, Karthus, Nunu, and TF are all casters that don't really the "okay then sucks" thing, unless we're talking about a game that goes on for like an hour.
Compared to the farmed up carry who chops them up in 3 seconds flat? Yes they suck.