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The problem with "Carries".

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Xenova

Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Echo7:
Like I said, most don't play him effectively. If you're honestly saying regeneration is his strong point, you are definitely on the far end from playing him well, or even having seen him played well.


I don't use his ulti for regen, i build him as a lifesteal/crit/phys dmg carry and use his ult for the speed bonus only.


I tried tanking on him and even with force of nature and 2 warmogs it was hopeless.

I'm pretty sure im playing him correctly now but why play a self damaging hero that can crit hard and run a little faster when you could play a carry who does all that and much more?

Sure its funny critting for 250-300 at level 3 but the moment anyone focuses on him hes a corpse in a couple of seconds.

-edit-

Regen is what SEPERATES him from other carries, thats WHY he has no mana.

But because of stupid ****ing bull**** like exe calling you are forced to play him as some gimp tryhard carry wannabe.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

01-16-2010

Your post, which I replied to, was you talking about his regeneration.

Mundo's strength is his innate damage, snare and durability. His ultimate, even when used under the previous higher heal reduction amounts, allowed Mundo to use his abilities for free, negating his self health drain and on top of that giving him higher effective health, and higher movement speed. Without health reduction, an effectively built/played Mundo would not die unless he wants to.

Just slapping more damage with crit and lifesteal on a champion, does not a carry make.

Your tanking failed because you had no tank, only health and regen. Which burst defeats handily. To tank in this game you have to have high magic resist and armor.

To be a tank, you have to be able to initiate and hard crowd control, something to force the attention upon you. Which is where Mundo fails for tanking. Like any other champion, Mundo can be itemized to tank, it just doesn't work very well on a champion with no initiation or team significant crowd control.

Which falls right back into how to play champions effectively, the timing, positioning, and actual intelligent use of the abilities separates their effective use from someone flailing about poorly with a good champion.
_________________

If you want to really talk about Mundo more, make a thread about it, we can even copy/paste these posts there and delete them here. But enough derailing the thread.


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Xenova

Member

01-16-2010

http://leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=524576#post524576

mundo discussion/appreciation thread =]


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wainrider

Member

01-16-2010

Oh hi, I'm here to stop carries. That melee carry chasing you? Don't worry he can't move now. That caster carry going to blow his load on you? Don't worry he'll only do about 1/4-1/2 of that damage now. You afraid of getting stunned? It's ok I'll protect you. Oh no a group battle! How about I slow everyone then stun them afterwards. Does that (fed) carry think he can lolrightclickandwin against me. Boy he sure is wrong. All that while looking sexy in my long dress.

Unless carries have cleanse and/or a banshee's veil, Morgana will rape them, with smart playing that is and the ability to actually aim her skill shot.

The reason carries are popular are because they are easy. When you get gear to counter them and play smartly they are just another squishy that will get targeted first and die.

I know kayle can bust up on carries and I'm sure there are others. I'd probably be able to give you a full list but I've only delved into kayle, morgana, and tryn.


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Xenova

Member

01-16-2010

Quote:
wainrider:
Oh hi, I'm here to stop carries. That melee carry chasing you? Don't worry he can't move now. That caster carry going to blow his load on you? Don't worry he'll only do about 1/4-1/2 of that damage now. You afraid of getting stunned? It's ok I'll protect you. Oh no a group battle! How about I slow everyone then stun them afterwards. Does that (fed) carry think he can lolrightclickandwin against me. Boy he sure is wrong.

Unless carries have cleanse and/or a banshee's veil, Morgana will rape them, with smart playing that is and the ability to actually aim her skill shot.

The reason carries are popular are because they are easy. When you get gear to counter them and play smartly they are just another squishy that will get targeted first and die.


I love playing morgana, i also love 3 shotting her on Veigar


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wainrider

Member

01-16-2010

Quote:
Xenova:
I love playing morgana, i also love 3 shotting her on Veigar


Vivi has never 3 shot me while playing her unless my spells were on cool down. That spell shield man. It lets her walk through the his stun gate and absorb half of his ult. But yeah his lol i deal dmg based of mana ulti is havoc on morgana if she doesn't have her shield on.


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Xenova

Member

01-16-2010

Quote:
wainrider:
Vivi has never 3 shot me while playing her unless my spells were on cool down. That spell shield man. It lets her walk through the his stun gate and absorb half of his ult. But yeah his lol i deal dmg based of mana ulti is havoc on morgana if she doesn't have her shield on.


I know it's so fun, but i love playing her, i just haven't bought her so i only played while she was free and i never lost i dont think.


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

01-16-2010

Quote:
Zeta:
A carry can still get those kills without CC. It's just slightly harder.
Yet a carry getting CCed is not going to get any kills at all.

Quote:
Does CC contribute to fights? Yes, but usually only because it makes targets easier for carries to catch.
At many points in a game, Annie, Fiddle, Kassadin, and a number of others can easily kill other champions without the help of a carry. Even if whatever they do doesn't finish the job, it certainly doesn't take a carry to do it.

Quote:
Either way, burst DPS dominates the game, as it either revolves around carries, or assisting carries.
Are you honestly trying to tell people that Annie, Anivia, Kassadin, etc. don't have burst?

Quote:
A mage team wouldn't make it to late game against a team of carries. A carry team can finish a game by the 15-25 minute mark.
A team with only mages would be garbage, just as a team with only carries would be.


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ReadInPeace

Senior Member

01-16-2010

Please cap crit chance at somewhere between 60-95.

Ta


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VonEvil

Junior Member

01-16-2010

Things which I think Carries have over Magic:

- Greater ease destroying towers as many magic powers don't affect towers

- Greater ease destroying High hit point mobs as melee/Life leech is more effective than AP items. Also some powers don't work on mobs eg Nunu can't consume on the dragon.

- Better synergy with Lizard buff for melee meaning perma snares. Perma snares will pretty much make 1v1 fights quite one sided.

- Better synergy with melee and Life steal. Theres no item that make AP moves life steal like melee attacks do. Meaning when I play casters I tend to bp more, instead of just chewing through some creeps to regain health

- Better aura items and buffs for melee (Starks Fervor is better than anything you can get for mages) buffs like Nunus (+60% atk spd) is better than any AP buff I know of. +60% atk spd is a huge DPS increase. Imagine a champion with a buff that did -60% CD (yes I know its not comparable like that, but just think how much more DPS that buff is).

- Banshee's veil means a carry has a considerable advantage against magic users. especially 1v1. 1 spell absorb will stop you getting burst down and maybe CCed, then carries tend to hit before the CD is over.

- Bushes blocking visibility means melee can get close to mages easier and its extremely difficult to get them off you (Lizard buff, Phage, etc). Again in group fights this benefit goes both ways, but in 1v1 this is a bigger benefit to a melee soloer over a caster.


In group fights I think most of these are counted by ranged burst damage, AE and CC but solo carries have a large advantage. Mages only seem to solo when they are massively fed. Carries can solo when they're negative. I notice that late game melee groups sometimes do better as they can push towers x2-3 times quicker than magic users.

The result seems to be that magic users rarely solo, whereas carries can. The ability to solo is actually a massive advantage. Being able to jungle with confidence or push multiple towers are nice tactical choices. Sometimes you group, sometimes you push seperate targets. Carries get choices, casters often have to group for safety.