[Discussion] AP vs AD nidalee

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Melonyan

Senior Member

01-14-2010

A lot of Nidalee guides end out spurring an arguement of AP vs AD on her and which is better. While I could just go to one of the guides to debate the topic I don't think it's right and people should be focusing on the actual content of the guide instead of AP vs AD since I believe they're both viable ways of playing her.

With that said, I never used to think AP nid was as viable as AD but I feel like I just wasn't building her right. My build for AP nid now is:
Saph crystal/2 -hp pots though sometimes I grab a dorans ring instead
Sheen/boots
Mejais soulstealer
Deathfire grasp
Licbhane

Games have ussually ended by now but if they're still going I'll grab a rylais, starting with the giants belt. The problem with rushing rylais after sheen which i've seen a lot of nids do is, it's mainly a survival item with slow, it's just the AP counterpart of mallet. At this point of the game you shouldn't need an expensive survival item unless your team comp is really bad.

Don't get me wrong though, I still like AD nid and it's what I played the majority of my games with before I tried this build. The problem with AP nid imo is that she's actually less useful after the battle is initiated, and before she switches to cougar which may sound stupid but it's not.

AP nid has really low autoattack damage without the lichbane proc, and you can't rely on hitting the target you want with spears in a teamfight because a tank will often by in the way. AD however can stand back behind the melee/tank line in human mode and still do a lot of damage with autoattacks before switching to cougar. Deathfires and lichbane help AP nid do a lot more damage before switching to cougar and should be the core of an AP build imo.

So basically, right now I'm not completely decided on which is better. In a long game AD nid can most definately edge AP nid out, but with deathfires and lichbane AP nid has a ton of burst damage and can kill squishies with one combo so she's still a definate late game threat. I've been playing a lot of games with my AP build, and I plan to play some AD games later to try and make a decision though I'd like to hear how other Nid players feel about the topic.


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IMSavior

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Senior Member

01-15-2010

could try reading through this

http://leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=37255

but basically, how ive come to think of it is on this list
feel free to add to the list if you want

Pros of ap:
extremely strong spammable spells in cat form + add lichbane
ap would go rylais, and in cat form this is a lot easier to activate on someone then frozen mallet is = easier to chase
in human form, your skill shot hits extremely ****ing hard from max range
your heal is extremely op, its basically sorakas ulti, but single target and lower c/d with attack speed buff (like 600 heals on 5-7 sec c/d)
more of an aoe nuker (high dmg pounce(aoe) and claw swipe(aoe))

Cons of ap:
very low physical dmg, doesnt take full advantage of q skill in cat form(i think ad should be better anyways)
in ranged form you are virtually useless for anything other then healing
have to be in the middle of things to do any dmg

Pros of ad:
your heal/speed buff can be cast on anyone for a fair heal and great attack speed, but unlike with ap you can also cast it on yourself and have the attack speed be a viable buff
you actually do dmg in human form!
in cat form your q can do a lot of dmg
your high spam spells proc trinity a lot = loads of dmg
easily chase and kill most any hero
can attack from afar or close up

Cons of ad:
your heal is minimal
your spear wont do any dmg
your aoe usefulness is laughable


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Gandalf 007

Senior Member

01-15-2010

AP Nidalee 4 life.

The reason Rylai's is better after sheen (IMO) is not only for the early survivability boost. The snare is there for the time of the game when it is MOST needed. Nidalee lacks a snare of her own, which may or may not matter depending on how many snares your comp has.

However, in most early->mid game transitions, you are not pushing as a 5man group yet. The skirmishes are still usually isolated to lanes, and usually involve between 2-6 champs total.

Because there is no guarantee that the 1-2 friendly champs nearby have a snare (in non 5-man AT), the early rylai's can create ganks where otherwise someone would have gotten back to a tower. It wouldn't be as big of an issue if you're using exhaust, I guess.

That's my .02


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Gaeb

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Senior Member

01-15-2010

I like sheen then battle gear for taking towers. Great finishing chaser and/or escapability on Nid. Heal is ridonk.

(ed: I tend to play for towers rather than kills, so that does alter my approach to her build)


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Gandalf 007

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
in ranged form you are virtually useless for anything other then healing
...assuming you suck at aiming javs (which becomes less and less difficult later in the game when everyone clumps), in which case, why play an AP build?

Jav's slow travel time is just as easy to abuse and exploit as it is a hindrance. Running (or pouncing) away from your own jav in flight can ensure max range (really hard hits), even if it was fired almost point blank.

Additionally, running TOWARDS your javelin significantly increases it's range, allowing you to hit far outside the fog of war. Don't ask me how, but it definitely seems to.


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Melonyan

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf 007 View Post
...assuming you suck at aiming javs (which becomes less and less difficult later in the game when everyone clumps), in which case, why play an AP build?

Jav's slow travel time is just as easy to abuse and exploit as it is a hindrance. Running (or pouncing) away from your own jav in flight can ensure max range (really hard hits), even if it was fired almost point blank.

Additionally, running TOWARDS your javelin significantly increases it's range, allowing you to hit far outside the fog of war. Don't ask me how, but it definitely seems to.
The thing is, once a fight is initiated you often can't hit the target you want because they're BEHIND someone else. Unlike ranged autoattack which hits the selected target, javs hit the first unit they collide with and sometimes that alistar or cho'gath can become too much of an obstacle for you to hit the person you want right at the start of the fight. They're best for harassing the enemy team in the pre-initiating phase where both teams are looking for a good chance to initiate, and they can give you an edge that way, but all in all I agree that AD nidalee is generally the stronger contributor outside of the heal when in human form during a 5 man team fight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf 007 View Post
The reason Rylai's is better after sheen (IMO) is not only for the early survivability boost. The snare is there for the time of the game when it is MOST needed. Nidalee lacks a snare of her own, which may or may not matter depending on how many snares your comp has.
I like rylais don't get me wrong, but I just dont think it packs much of a punch compared to a lot of the other AP items you can buy and often for a cheaper price. I still get a lot of kills outside of team fights without the slow from rylais, especially since I take boots of mobility and either exhaust or ignite. Also in team fights between your natural chasing ability and your allies with stun/slow its just not as important as being able to do good burst damage which I feel is nidalees job after the initial aoe/stuns are spent.


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AFKray

Senior Member

01-15-2010

AP is pretty dependent on how well you do early game. Also, dependent if the enemy stacks any form of MR. That aside, both ways are fun to play and are pretty much equal. Although I will say you will need a strong carry to suppliment your AP build


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Lumaca

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Well, last couple of games I played, I ended only with a Triforce and Rilay. Triforce gives a lot of stats useful for Nid. It also makes me a bit more unpredictable, and inescapable. My normal hits slow, my spells slow.

Mejai's too inconsistent for me.


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Strype McClaine

Junior Member

01-15-2010

I play Nidalee alot. Not as much as some of my other favorites, but I digress.
To do her right, you can't neglect either, but rather, take both.

The way I play her the most
1) Nashor's Tooth
2) Ninja Tabi
3) Sheen
4) Crystal Scepter // Frozen Mallet
5) Malady (pushed sooner if needed)


By that point the game is over, if it keeps going then further outfit, with Tiamat or Phantom Dancer.

I say this, out of, in catform, Nidalee gains 10% dodge, the tabi are 11%, 6% from the defense mastery tree, and then 5.85 - 9% (ish? i forget how much quints give) from runes.

Plenty of dodge to always have the extra speed and attack boost from the defense tree.

Nashor's is just enough mana Regen for heal/trap spamming
Sheen, is...well..mandatory
And everything at that point, is just gravy.

The best thing about going psudo hybrid is you always have the ability to watch what people are buying, and compensate, and still havering some decent staying power. Nidalee is best, at just staying in her lane for ever, pushing for ever, and only leaving to buy and return speadly in cat form