Reasons to side with Morgana

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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-24-2011

I've seen it mentioned here before that technically, we don't know who was in the "right" on Morgana/Kayle's homeworld. And certainly, Morgana's lore entry suggests that the situation could be rather grey.

That said, betweenher lore and Kayle's it is never clear if there is any reason to believe that Kayle's people were out of line; the worst thing suggested is that they are too insistent on creating law and order. That could mean anything from "Kayle is a bit Jack Bauer-ish" to "Kayle is a bit Hitler-ish".

The thing is, who's more likely to be the one responsible for overreacting and creating a problem? The one whose abilities are half defensive/healing, or the one who blackens your soil and drains souls? Yet there still seems to be a large consensus that the two are morally equivalent, or that perhaps Morgana is even in the right. Is there something I'm missing here?


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Paperman299

Junior Member

01-24-2011

I think Kayle and Morgana, like many opposing forces in the LoL world, are built to heavily resemble traditional good/evil stereotypes while blurring the lines a bit to make it more grey and force you to think. Demacia and Noxus certainly fall within this category - Demacia is clearly the side of light and order, but it's Big Brother-esque level of control over its populace kind of gives us pause as to just throwing our lot in with them.

And I wouldn't be so quick to judge Kayle and Morgana based on their abilities. Sure, one heals and the other hurts, but we can't say that, for instance, the only way to cause harm is through direct measures. One person may have a gun and the other may have a syringe, but what if one is a cop, and the other is a back-alley doctor fixing up Jack Nicholson so he can be the Joker?

I think, until we know more about their world (which probably won't happen for a looong time, seeing as there is no purer metaphor in the lore for the "take a deeper look at this almost-clear-cut good/evil dynamic you know" idea LoL has going on), we can't judge. We can't assume Kayle is the "good" side for her cutesy heal powers and heroic-looking gold armor any more than we could assume Morgana is the "good" side because of her tasty cookies.

And even the Emperor in Star Wars claimed to be working to create law and order.


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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-24-2011

Good points, and the Empire in Star Wars is an excellent example. The thing is, we had numerous hints that the Empire was evil: they killed Luke's aunt and uncle, people who we knew were unarmed non-combatants. They destroyed the peaceful (also unarmed) world of Alderaan, even after promising not to.

I haven't heard of Demacia or Kayle doing anything similar. The worst I've heard about Demacia was in the Lux judgement, where they dragged her away from her family for training. A cruel upbringing, perhaps, but when compared to the numerous atrocities committed by Noxus, it becomes impossible to imagine a situation in which Demacia *aren't* the good guys in their conflicts. I mean, maybe if they invaded Ionia or something, but what are the chances of that?

Similarly, while Kayle may not be as nice and friendly as Soraka or as cuddly as Teemo, she seems far and away a better person than Morgana. I mean, who knows what she's putting in those cookies? And even if they aren't poisoned, it could all be a plot to spread obesity and hyperglycemia across Runeterra.


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Vuther

Senior Member

01-24-2011

I agree with the sentiment on Demacia's good guy-ness. From what read do know on Demacia, it only seems to have harsh laws. While that is easily taken advantage of, there's no indication that such a thing is happening. Lux's case could be easily seen as an isolated incident that happened because it was at the behest and power of her parents (who clearly have some prestige and likely power with their family name). Noxus... seems to be ****s who do take advantage of everything they can.

In terms of Kayle and Morgana's sides, there's unfortunately not enough information aside from the personal opinions of those champions. It could be run the gamut from pure good against a side who just thinks they are but pretty much no one else would agree to being so grey it's practically even. We'll just have to wait impatiently.

But I'm sure it'll be great!


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Cidem1324

Web Content Assistant

01-24-2011

Kayle doesn't have the nicest job description in the world. Her punishments may be tough, but at least she's fair, as far as the laws of her world are concerned. She does what she must, for justice.

"God knows, it's easy to be kind; it's hard to be just."


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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-24-2011

Fair enough. I was hoping to get a bit of discussion about the pros/cons in favor of each, but it sounds like I'm not alone in my lack of info.


So far we have:

In Kayle's favor:
- Healing magic
- Protective magic
- Angelic wings
- She says she's good (Morgana only claims to be justified in her actions, not 'good', per se)
- Pleasant demeanor. Morgana seems awfully emo and melodramatic, always talking about her pain and suffering. Nobody likes a whiner.

In Morgana's favor:
- She bakes cookies
- I've heard it said that Kayle is responsible for tearing up Morgana's wings - is that confirmed? If so, suggests that Kayle may be more vicious than she seems.
- Of all the dark magic she could have learned, she made the effort to learn how to shield her allies with it. Suggests a protective/good nature, perhaps.


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Bomber678

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Junior Member

01-25-2011

I think with Demacia and Noxus, it's not as clear-cut as you might think.....
Demacia have very strict laws about having to fight for your city-state, and never ever speak a word against it. Speaking against Demacia was a serious crime.

And in Noxus, they just love good fights and worthy opponents. They maybe do things in odd and sometimes violent ways, but they do them for good reasons.

It is like wind and fire:
Wind blows, spreading seeds and moving air, cooling you when hot, and warming you when cold.
Fire burns, destroying things and killing without reason.
However, does the wind not wear away rocks, and turn stones into sand?
And does fire not bring warmth and light, allowing cooking and happiness?

Light and darkness can each be good or evil. Do not always assume things are what they seem.


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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Um....what were Noxus' "good reasons" for:

- Invading Alistar's homeland and slaughtering his unarmed family?
- Invading Master Yi's village and torturing/experimenting on them without their consent?
- Slaughtering Tryndamere's family?
- Invading Irelia's homeland and killing her?

I'm all for shades of grey in storytelling; I'm just not seeing any here. At the worst, both are sinister in their own way. More likely, Demacia is the (much) lesser of two evils.

Back to Morgana and Kayle, we don't know of anything particularly nice that Morgana has done, other than baking cookies and shielding people.


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SethCypher

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrevk View Post
Back to Morgana and Kayle, we don't know of anything particularly nice that Morgana has done, other than baking cookies and shielding people.
Problem is, we have no idea of the particular evils either. For all we could know, Morgana could be protecting those who use dark powers for the greater good while Kayle mercilessly kills them whilst they are trying to heal people. On the otherhand however, Kayle oversees her form of justice to a tee. This justice is unflexible and is basically black and white, no greys.

On the note of Noxus and Demacia, we are never really given insight into Noxus's side. We only know from a very broad description that it is a city-state that favors the strong and is a militaristic machine (though I'd define Demacia to be more of this than anything else). Most cases, I believe its just Noxus trying to survive. I always imagine Noxus as a city-state situated in the wastelands. No agriculture, no mineral deposits, and perhaps even no merchants come by either. As such, they have to resort to looking to other lands. However, they're not good at diplomacy as Demacia is, they do what they can only do...fight.


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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Well, if nothing else Tainted Soil is environmentally hazardous. And soul draining is indisputably evil, unless you're only doing it to evil people (in which case it's kinda neutral, leaning towards evil). I'd love to believe that Morgana is a nice, honest gal who's had a string of bad luck that turned her purple/green with giant ears, but there's no evidence to support that idea.


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