[Rune Suggestion] Restricted Tier 4 Runes

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Intrade

Senior Member

01-23-2011

I have a suggestion for the runes in LoL.

I understand that Tier 3 runes are the top-tier runes that one can purchase from the IP shop.

Why not have a Tier 4 rune tier as the new top tier that cannot be obtained by the shop, and only through the combiner?

For example, in order to obtain Tier 4 runes you have to combine 5 Tier 3 runes to get a Tier 4 rune, but instead of a pure random Tier 4 rune, the result rune will be a Tier 4 equivalent of one of the 5 runes used to make the Tier 4 rune.

There are several ways that it could be done. I propose 2 solutions out of potentially infinitely many.


Set Random (Random selection between runes used)
Let's say you have 5 Tier 3 Health Quintessences (I believe it's 32.4 flat health?) and you put them in the combiner. Because they're all the same, you have a 100% chance of getting the Tier 4 equivalent of that rune. However if you have 4 of the Tier 3 Health Quints and then 1 other Tier 3 rune, you have a 80% chance to get the Tier 4 equivalent of the Tier 3 Health Quint and a 20% chance to get the Tier 4 equiv of the other rune. Basically you have a chance of getting a Tier 4 equiv of the runes that you use and each time that rune is repeated the chance for that rune being tiered up increases by 20% per quantity of the rune. So 3 of the exact same Tier 3 runes give that particular Tier 3 rune a 60% chance of being tiered up since the quantity is 3 and the base chance is 20%

Completely Random
...Or you can make the system much harder by issuing a random Tier 4 rune regardless of runes used, though everyone would abuse that by buying a bunch of cheap Tier 3 runes to make a potentially good Tier 4 rune. I'm for either system, especially since the completely-random system makes developing good Tier 4 rune pages extremely difficult and competitive. In fact, most people will have Tier 3 runes with a few Tier 4 runes in each of their rune pages if the completely random system is chosen. Players that have been playing for an extremely long time (or extremely lucky players) will have full or very close to full rune Tier 4 rune pages with a set theme.


In any case I would like to see if the developers would agree to enabling some kind of system for making Tier 4 runes and making them difficult to obtain.


I admit that there are some pros and cons for this implementation, but this offers Riot an increase in profits because more of the core players will be purchasing IP boosts to get runes faster to tier up and stay competitive and the system would be difficult to abuse despite either scenario.


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noxaddo

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Senior Member

01-23-2011

Riot hire this man!


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FUNSTUFF

Senior Member

01-23-2011

Well if they made Tier 4 rune generation completely random, I'd wanna be able to trade runes with people, but we all saw what happened to TF2.

Completely-serious-joking aside, this is a neat idea, but it sounds... anti-fun. I don't want to get squashed by full-page Tier 4-ers knowing I'm hopeless to reach that point in a remotely realistic time frame. Nine Tier 3 dodge seals take a week of steady play to accrue, now you want me to make that grind 5 more times over for the next level of dodge? I ain't buyin'.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like they're underplaying the rune combiner in painful ways. In all my time spent upgrading rune pages, I've gotten a SINGLE rune I held on to and used. I don't see myself using the combiner anytime soon, either. I'm all for combination-exclusive runes, but a new tier? Not so much.


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x Syotos x

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Senior Member

01-24-2011

I like the idea of a 4th tier of runes. But i think you should go further. you have T1 at lvl 1-9 T2 10-19 and T3 20-30, why not a T4 for lvl 30 restricted only (reduce price and quality of t3 runes to 20-29) and then have a T5 obtained with your methods or methods below.

Or have T4(5) runes Be obtained by competing in Ranked gameplay earning you "Ranked Influence Points" to spend on the runes as well. The way the RIP would work would be like IP except in ranked games you would earn RIP OVER IP. but not allowing your "first win of day" effect your RIP gain.

But (this is where it gets complex) Have the RIP gain not dependent on the win but By your participation in the game.
For Each Champion kill/death/assist Will reward or subtract RIP Gain.
hero Kill/assist rewards 5 Per while hero deaths subtract 1.5 (round down if uneven)
and of course an additional 25 For win and 15 for a loss.
For example 2 players from each team:
-----------------Carry-------------Support/tank---------------Lost Avg player-------Lost Poor player
K/d/a------ 14/4/2 ---------- 2/5/19 --------------------------- 7/8/9 -------------------- 1/11/5
RIP Gain - 99 ---------------- 97 ---------------------------------- 82 ----------------------- 28

For a player who would go "negative" points in a game (say 0/10/2) would just gain an auto 15 points (or 25 if some how they were carried).

With the way this is designed it would allow Players to Gain RIP based on their own performance and not relying on "good" teams completely for points (unlike the ELO rating cough cough).

Just my thought ;-)
p.s. pardon if the math is wrong or some points are off, posting at 8 am with no sleep lol.


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Intrade

Senior Member

01-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by x Syotos x View Post
I like the idea of a 4th tier of runes. But i think you should go further. you have T1 at lvl 1-9 T2 10-19 and T3 20-30, why not a T4 for lvl 30 restricted only (reduce price and quality of t3 runes to 20-29) and then have a T5 obtained with your methods or methods below.

Or have T4(5) runes Be obtained by competing in Ranked gameplay earning you "Ranked Influence Points" to spend on the runes as well. The way the RIP would work would be like IP except in ranked games you would earn RIP OVER IP. but not allowing your "first win of day" effect your RIP gain.

But (this is where it gets complex) Have the RIP gain not dependent on the win but By your participation in the game.
For Each Champion kill/death/assist Will reward or subtract RIP Gain.
hero Kill/assist rewards 5 Per while hero deaths subtract 1.5 (round down if uneven)
and of course an additional 25 For win and 15 for a loss.
For example 2 players from each team:
-----------------Carry-------------Support/tank---------------Lost Avg player-------Lost Poor player
K/d/a------ 14/4/2 ---------- 2/5/19 --------------------------- 7/8/9 -------------------- 1/11/5
RIP Gain - 99 ---------------- 97 ---------------------------------- 82 ----------------------- 28

For a player who would go "negative" points in a game (say 0/10/2) would just gain an auto 15 points (or 25 if some how they were carried).

With the way this is designed it would allow Players to Gain RIP based on their own performance and not relying on "good" teams completely for points (unlike the ELO rating cough cough).

Just my thought ;-)
p.s. pardon if the math is wrong or some points are off, posting at 8 am with no sleep lol.
I'd be happy enough with the Tier 4 rune implementation and some creativity on Riot's end.

Also shameless quote/bump ;p


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Ellye

Senior Member

01-25-2011

No, please. Tier 3 runes already have too much of an impact in-game, with even better runes the game would be decided by whoever spent more time farming IP instead of who's the better player.

I wouldn't mind seeing new uses for the rune combiner, though. Maybe creating "hybrid" runes or such, but not a new tier.


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Wolyeon265

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Runes shouldn't be game changing and make the lower and poorer players impossible to win the game.


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Pissfer

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Senior Member

01-25-2011

I like the idea, except for the fact that it will introduce too much of "I've played the game more than you, and spent real money to buy champions so I had IP to buy all my runes and get epic top tier runes :P"
I actually wouldn't mind it as like... a non-ranked game thing or something like that.

My best thought on the implementation if this actually DID happen would be you can use 1 type of tier 4 rune per rune page (eg if you have tier 4 marks, you can't have tier 4 glyphs or seals or quints) and possibly not include quints in the tier 4 rune market.


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Intrade

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNSTUFF View Post
Well if they made Tier 4 rune generation completely random, I'd wanna be able to trade runes with people, but we all saw what happened to TF2.

Completely-serious-joking aside, this is a neat idea, but it sounds... anti-fun. I don't want to get squashed by full-page Tier 4-ers knowing I'm hopeless to reach that point in a remotely realistic time frame. Nine Tier 3 dodge seals take a week of steady play to accrue, now you want me to make that grind 5 more times over for the next level of dodge? I ain't buyin'.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like they're underplaying the rune combiner in painful ways. In all my time spent upgrading rune pages, I've gotten a SINGLE rune I held on to and used. I don't see myself using the combiner anytime soon, either. I'm all for combination-exclusive runes, but a new tier? Not so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellye View Post
No, please. Tier 3 runes already have too much of an impact in-game, with even better runes the game would be decided by whoever spent more time farming IP instead of who's the better player.

I wouldn't mind seeing new uses for the rune combiner, though. Maybe creating "hybrid" runes or such, but not a new tier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolyeon265 View Post
Runes shouldn't be game changing and make the lower and poorer players impossible to win the game.

I'm extremely disappointed. The only time I hear about complaints about runes is on the forums. Never have I heard a complaint about runes between ranked games and casual games. I've heard people say they're using the wrong rune page and they still do good based on their skill, but nothing like this. Sorry but I feel the urge to rant.


<rant>

A team with full Tier 2 runes will easily beat a team with Tier 3 runes if T2 rune team is more coordinated. The only time optimization like that really matters is most likely in the 1900+ bracket. I have my doubts that the casual/poorer players will be in that bracket or higher unless by mere luck or by tons of games played. Lower level players can blame runes on defeat as much as they'd like but the reality is skill + teamcomp > "gear" in LoL.

Sorry but both points are pretty moot, especially since you get tons of IP by leveling from 1-30 you can simply choose to stick to a few heroes and deck out your rune page with T3 or get a select few T4 runes and stay away from ranked until you're satisfied. Lots of casuals did ranked without full rune pages after rushing to 30 and still held their own and farmed out of elo hell. I can't say I was one of them since I played since Open Beta, but friends from WoW that I invited to LoL that DIDNT listen to me when I told them to save their IP and not buy runes til lvl 20+ were bit in the ass when ranked games came out. We still did very well in games we should've lost and the average player on the enemy team would have at least 50-250+ wins over them but the enemy team still loses for the following major factors:

-Bad Team Comp
-Lack of Teamwork
-Using new hero they were unfamiliar with
-Bad day
-Trolling
-Leaver/Lagger

And this can happen to anyone regardless of what runes are being used.

In terms of Casual play it may be true that someone with Tier 4 runes will roll you up in a Casual game, but that's because they have so many wins (900+) and more experience than the Casual player. Again, please place the blame on something else other than runes.

Right now it just seems like you casuals are qqing about a new Tier being difficult to obtain. I can't play this game as much as I used to, for several reasons (either not enough time or not enough desire) so at most I'll do 0-2 games a day and I'm requesting this. I'm technically one of the poorer/casual players now like yourself and opening a new Tier would supposedly put me at a disadvantage based on your claims, and yet I'm still asking for it. Why? Because I've played enough games to know that what I've said above is pretty much true and Tier 4 runes most definitely will make the game more interesting and not be as bad as the lowbies/casuals or these self-proclaimed "poorer" people claim even though I've made suggestions on how even the poor individuals can have a means of getting these runes.

If I was just starting the game again and found out that the highest Tier was difficult to get compared to 2nd highest, that just adds to the challenge of becoming the best. The casual player need not worry about being the best (at least not immediately).

If you have time to complain about runes because they're "game changing" then maybe you should look into better team optimizations/comps first and see how much that effects the game prior to Runes. I've seen level 20-29 teams (with maybe 1-2 30's) beat a full 30's team where each enemy has 300-800 wins due to the following factors already mentioned, not runes!

</rant>

The only really good point was the first quote about the time frame to obtain the Tier 4 runes. Yes it would take a lot of time for a Casual/poorer player to obtain full Tier 4 based on the models I've presented, but the Dev team can cook up something better if they wanted to. The ways I've presented allow people who already have Tier 3 to have a slight-advantage but even those individuals will be very careful about tiering-up their runes.

If the devs go by model 1:
An example would be me tiering up my Greater Seal of Clarity runes [+0.1 mana regen / 5 sec. per level]. I only have 9 of these. For me to tier up and keep my rune book full I would need to consume 5 of these to make one Tier 4 rune and then replenish empty slots with Tier 3 runes. Then I'd have to repeat this process several times and eventually buy 5 of these seals (over and over) to complete just that section of one of my rune pages. This would be a long process even for a core player, and initial IP filler spent will most likely go to the runepage (and runes) the user uses the most.

If the devs go by model 2:
Everyone has an advantage with this model because even noobies leveling can simply start spending IP at level 20+ and start mixing runes by buying cheap Tier 3 runes and combine them for a random Tier 4 rune. The process for getting a Tier 4 rune would be much faster than model 1 at the cost of the question of whether that Tier 4 rune is useful for the individuals rune-page themes since it's random. An example rune that would be purchased just to be combined is the Greater Mark of Strength [Tier 3, lvl 20+, IP cost 205]. The first win of the day would easily buy you one of these runes and give you some IP leftover to use. Assuming you only have time for 1 game a day within 1 week you could get anywhere between 2-8 of the Greater Mark of Strength's strictly to be combined into a random Tier 4 rune. The 2-8 comes from the potential 67-256 IP (67 being the average lowest you would get from a loss and 256 being the average highest you would get from a win, obviously not counting any boosts). If your win-loss ratio is 50% then per week you'd expect to get 5 of these runes in a week

((67+256)*3 + 67)/205 is close to 5

...so 1 random Tier 4 rune per week to someone that plays LoL once per day. Model 2 presents a reasonable means for getting Tier 4 runes in decent time, especially since attempting to deck out most Tier 3 rune sections (or acquiring certain T3 quints) will take much longer.

And for those that can't play 1 game per day can simply make up for the times they didn't play on their day off (if they so choose to).


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Intrade

Senior Member

01-26-2011

bump