(Guide) An intricate guide to going mid as Warwick

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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiendolo View Post
props for the concept, but WWs late-game viability even with mid advantage is almost exclusively as an anti-carry - which IMO is not the best use of mid
WW's mid-game viability (25ish minutes) is so insane that if you can't carry your team at that point, your doing it wrong.


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Wolvenborn

Member

01-27-2011

For those of youbthat have not tried a solo lane WW, give it a chance. Dont forget your movement speed is faster than ranged,,,,making harass easier than you would think. if they harass you most of the time they will need to burn mana and it is near impossible to stay outside WW.s Q range when the WW positions himself between the champ and the creeps.

I play a different take on midwick though. Similar to Guardsman Bob's.

The theory behind this build is to maximize WW's Q. At max rank it takes 20% of the target's health, healing you for the same. This is HUGE throughout the game....not just early/mid....

This means you do NOT need offensive items to make this work. So my build usually goes something like this (depending on who I lane against, or the other team's composition).

1. Doran's Ring
2. Boots
3. Frozen Heart (CDR is king)
4. Banshee's
5. Sunfire Cape

Basically, with some CDR, you have a 20% health nuke on a 4 second cooldown. This is monstrous. Your are insanely hard to kill in team fights and doing a lot of damage. Not to mention your ult usually means death to the carry it's cast on (ULT + Q + some help from teammtes = gg). It's also for this reason I like to run ignite/flash.

It's really easy to dominate mid with midwick. Sure there are some hard counters, but most of the time, even on ranged heroes, it's really easy to dominate mid, get easy kills, and outlevel their carry severely. In my lone game against ashe, in the laning phase I was 3 levels ahead of her...simply due to the fact she had to stay out of creep range to avoid my Ult + Q combo. She had to constantly have their jungle come to keep me under control...thus also stealing her XP.

Again, WW has this stigma on him as a strict jungler when he can be one of the best laners in the game. His ganking abiliites pre level 6 aren't very good at all.

The one thing I should mention is that I skill in this order:

R > Q > E > W

I actually don't put anything into E until my Q and R are maxed out. It's easy to get your opponent low on life..and once your E kicks in...your harass is off the charts. They simply cannot stay out of yoru range with that crazy movement speed. Since this build is built around your Q, E is only reall good for team fights/towers. So it can wait.


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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolvenborn View Post
For those of youbthat have not tried a solo lane WW, give it a chance. Dont forget your movement speed is faster than ranged,,,,making harass easier than you would think. if they harass you most of the time they will need to burn mana and it is near impossible to stay outside WW.s Q range when the WW positions himself between the champ and the creeps.

I play a different take on midwick though. Similar to Guardsman Bob's.

The theory behind this build is to maximize WW's Q. At max rank it takes 20% of the target's health, healing you for the same. This is HUGE throughout the game....not just early/mid....

This means you do NOT need offensive items to make this work. So my build usually goes something like this (depending on who I lane against, or the other team's composition).

1. Doran's Ring
2. Boots
3. Frozen Heart (CDR is king)
4. Banshee's
5. Sunfire Cape

Basically, with some CDR, you have a 20% health nuke on a 4 second cooldown. This is monstrous. Your are insanely hard to kill in team fights and doing a lot of damage. Not to mention your ult usually means death to the carry it's cast on (ULT + Q + some help from teammtes = gg). It's also for this reason I like to run ignite/flash.

It's really easy to dominate mid with midwick. Sure there are some hard counters, but most of the time, even on ranged heroes, it's really easy to dominate mid, get easy kills, and outlevel their carry severely. In my lone game against ashe, in the laning phase I was 3 levels ahead of her...simply due to the fact she had to stay out of creep range to avoid my Ult + Q combo. She had to constantly have their jungle come to keep me under control...thus also stealing her XP.

Again, WW has this stigma on him as a strict jungler when he can be one of the best laners in the game. His ganking abiliites pre level 6 aren't very good at all.

The one thing I should mention is that I skill in this order:

R > Q > E > W

I actually don't put anything into E until my Q and R are maxed out. It's easy to get your opponent low on life..and once your E kicks in...your harass is off the charts. They simply cannot stay out of yoru range with that crazy movement speed. Since this build is built around your Q, E is only reall good for team fights/towers. So it can wait.
I never thought about super tank WW. I'll be sure to try it out.


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

01-28-2011

I like jungle WW alot, but this thread has definitely perked my interest. Too bad no solo que group will ever let me try midwick. I'll have to convince my premade buddies to let me try it.... once I farm up that ridiculous rune page...


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Superdadd

Senior Member

01-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiendolo View Post
props for the concept, but WWs late-game viability even with mid advantage is almost exclusively as an anti-carry - which IMO is not the best use of mid
This IMO. Mid is a precious resource, and this isn't the best use of it (it's decent, but certainly not the best use of mid)

Putting your WW mid is a concession to forcing a win at the 25 min mark. If for whatever reason you don't win by 25 mins, then you are probably going to lose, because you have underfed true carries compared to the opponents.

That being said, I'm not saying it can't work. There are lots of teamcomps that simply must win by 25 mins or they lose.

I'm sure you can do well with WW mid. I'm sure the early level advantage allows you to gank extremely strongly in midgame. However, all that being said, the midgame advantage does not offset the fact that I would rather have my mid be used by a true endgame carry.

This just isn't the best usage of of a valuable resource (middle lane) to me.


And as an aside, I think the most interesting thing in this whole thread is the midgame viability of magewick. The main reason why is that negatron doesn't negate his Bloodrazor, because magewick would likely have magic penetration.

Most champions that would buy a madreds would not itemize for MPen, therefore madreds is a very easy item to shut down. However magewick could take something like Abyssal Sceptre, keeping his Razorblades lethal all game long.

Imagine:

Razorblades
Lichbane
Abyssal Sceptre

That's some fast burst. Intiate, Q, Lichbane Proc, Pop Ult, Q, lichbane proc, all with some huge MR. That's basically death for anyone.

Of course, this peters out lategame, but WW going mid is a concession to winning midgame, so might as well go all-out for the midgame win.


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

01-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdadd View Post
This IMO. Mid is a precious resource, and this isn't the best use of it (it's decent, but certainly not the best use of mid)

Putting your WW mid is a concession to forcing a win at the 25 min mark. If for whatever reason you don't win by 25 mins, then you are probably going to lose, because you have underfed true carries compared to the opponents. .
This is just bizarre. First of all theres no reason that WW can't carry. Second of all even if you consider WW more of an anti-carry theres no reason to think that you're disadvantaged compared to their mid carry, because, you know, anti-carries counter carries. Third of all theres no reason to think that an enemy carry could get a good farm against midwick. Fourth of all theres another solo lane your carry could take, and also you can put a carry in the bot lane with a support champ that doesn't need many list hits, and he'll get nearly as farmed. Fifth of all even if your carries are getting lower CS, if midwick's midgame leads to even one dragon or won teamfight, his carries are caught up or ahead.

So I am definitely not seeing this whole "midwick must win by 25" thing. Perhaps you could argue that he must secure a lead by 25, but even thats a stretch imo.


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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-28-2011

Don't listen to Superdadd. He's a troll who pretends to be experienced in certain heroes in order to give his moronic arguments value.


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Superdadd

Senior Member

01-28-2011

It's pretty simple actually. Your mid is a valuable resource. It is the lane that singlehandedly determines map control in the mid/lategame. If you lose your tower early it has dire rammifications in the midgame. This is why ranged characters are ideal for mid, because if they push the lane to the opponent mid, they can take 1-2 snipes each time at the tower. Warwick cannot. This alone is such a massive detriment to WW taking mid that I cannot even possibly do it justice. The fact that you deny it simply tells me that you don't understand the larger game strategy as much as you should. So many games are won or lost based on who takes mid tower and can save their mid tower, but the average person does not realise this. Again, the implications of taking their mid tower and not losing yours is just so profound I cannot stress it enough.

Mid also is one of your solo lanes, and is the easiest lane to farm, since it's the quickest route back to a tower, even fully pushed. I would only recommend warwick mid if he was the 2nd best lategame carry in the game.

Forcing a lategame carry to go bot (say you have 2 and one is top) is just aweful. He will fight for CS all early/midgame and will have a very hard time dominating lategame.

Regardless of how much you think WW can carry, lategame 5v5's are his weakest point in the game, without a doubt. He's moderatate power level 1, very strong level 5, crazy strong level 6, then tapers off slightly for the rest of the game. He remains extremely powerful until 5v5 teamfights start, afterwhich his main job is to supress their carry, get blown up (likely) or possibly trade evenly after that. He just doesn't have any teamfight support besides his R. At least not as much as most champions.

The reason I say that WW mid is a concession to win by 25, is that you are giving your most valuable resource to someone that starts to become less useful towards the endgame, and in doing-so, are likely screwing over a lategame carry by underfarming him/her. Sure you probably CAN make it work, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

In every single game I play, I would rather any lategame carry to have mid and solo top, provided they can get the CS farm going if top is 1v2 (if not they should be babysat in bot, but that's rare).

I would have to see specific compositions, but unless your team is something like Rammus, Janna, Malphite, Trist, WW, this just wouldn't work.

If your teamcomp is something like Ashe, Kass, WW, Rammus, Janna, then you sir are losing your team the game by taking mid as WW, because either your Kass or Ashe will be underfarmed and underleveled. Then the game ends and your Ashe is 5/8/6, because she was underfarmed due to being forced bottom, and you call her a noob Ashe, when the problem was really with the self-rightous Warwick calling middle lane.


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

01-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdadd View Post
It's pretty simple actually. Your mid is a valuable resource. It is the lane that singlehandedly determines map control in the mid/lategame. If you lose your tower early it has dire rammifications in the midgame. This is why ranged characters are ideal for mid, because if they push the lane to the opponent mid, they can take 1-2 snipes each time at the tower. Warwick cannot. This alone is such a massive detriment to WW taking mid that I cannot even possibly do it justice. The fact that you deny it simply tells me that you don't understand the larger game strategy as much as you should. So many games are won or lost based on who takes mid tower and can save their mid tower, but the average person does not realise this. Again, the implications of taking their mid tower and not losing yours is just so profound I cannot stress it enough.
Rofl no. People don't push mid tower because they'll get ganked and die. Even if they wanted to push midwick's tower, what makes you think they could?

Quote:
Regardless of how much you think WW can carry, lategame 5v5's are his weakest point in the game, without a doubt. He's moderatate power level 1, very strong level 5, crazy strong level 6, then tapers off slightly for the rest of the game. He remains extremely powerful until 5v5 teamfights start, afterwhich his main job is to supress their carry, get blown up (likely) or possibly trade evenly after that. He just doesn't have any teamfight support besides his R. At least not as much as most champions.
Right, hes only difficult to kill, hits like a truck, boosts allied aspd, kites and chases like a boss, and telesupresses the most dangerous threat. Definitely not a good team fighter. Definitely.

Quote:
If your teamcomp is something like Ashe, Kass, WW, Rammus, Janna, then you sir are losing your team the game by taking mid as WW, because either your Kass or Ashe will be underfarmed and underleveled. Then the game ends and your Ashe is 5/8/6, because she was underfarmed due to being forced bottom, and you call her a noob Ashe, when the problem was really with the self-rightous Warwick calling middle lane.
Rofl you literally just pointed out an ideal team comp to use midwick on. Rammus is an epic jungle ganker, and all 3 lanes have ridiculous ults to seal the kills. Ashe + Janna is a dominant lane with zoning written all over it. Janna can feed all the CS to Ashe. You keep bringing up WW's dominant midgame. You're telling me he can't turn that into just one dragon or series of kills? Because if he does, Ashe is already caught up to whomever they had mid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyzar View Post
Don't listen to Superdadd. He's a troll who pretends to be experienced in certain heroes in order to give his moronic arguments value.
Yeah thats the impression I'm getting also.


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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Yeah thats the impression I'm getting also.
Yep.