(Guide) An intricate guide to going mid as Warwick

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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaSigma View Post
I can definitely vouch for lanewick. I have played several games with him now and it IS viable. He can mid but I prefer him in a solo side lane. I usually go dorans ring first followed by sorc boots spirit visage and then either a tank item or Madreds depending on how you are doing. Also check out Guardsman Bob, hes the one I got this build from. You cant call him a noob.
Yeah I experimented with going spirit visage but I found it ultimately underwhelming in comparison to other items.


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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDevan View Post
I'd love to see any WW try and outharass a vlad,ashe,tristana, anything with range etc. Its a nice concept at first but any competent mid would easily be able to zone ww since he is a melee and has to chase down an enemy to get any hits in
Have you even tried it?


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Plutwo

Senior Member

01-23-2011

+1

I like people who try to step outside the box and use champs in unorthodox ways. Then, using something other then the cookie cutter build is even better.

Criticism: I don't like having to go off site for a guide.


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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutwo View Post
+1

I like people who try to step outside the box and use champs in unorthodox ways. Then, using something other then the cookie cutter build is even better.

Criticism: I don't like having to go off site for a guide.
Heh, well, It's either that or deal with the inability to post pictures / etc.


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ZuryVarkoff

Junior Member

01-23-2011

"

Quote:
24 (Malady) + 20 (Haunting Guise) + 20 (Sorcerer's Shoes) + 15% from the offensive tree = 64 + 15%. This completely negates 81 out of 100 MR.
"

more like ~70 out of 100 ..


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jezuschryzt

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Senior Member

01-23-2011

i haven't tried this build yet, but the main thing that rings alarm bells for me is mana usage. how do you sustain spamming Q without blue buff or mp5 runes? using Q 3-4 times in a short amount of time is enough to drain your entire mana pool, which completely destroys your ability to harass and/or stay in the lane.


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ThetaSigma

Senior Member

01-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by jezuschryzt View Post
i haven't tried this build yet, but the main thing that rings alarm bells for me is mana usage. how do you sustain spamming Q without blue buff or mp5 runes? using Q 3-4 times in a short amount of time is enough to drain your entire mana pool, which completely destroys your ability to harass and/or stay in the lane.
I solve this by getting dorans ring first and having mp5/lvl seals. With this as long as you aren't constantly spamming on minions you can stay in lane indefinitely.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

01-24-2011

Here is my critique:

* The 15% magic pen happens AFTER the rest of your penetration. In your 100MR example you would drop them from 100MR to 36, then 15% of that, which drops them to 30ish. Those 6 points are still valuable though, but not as much as your example indicates. I actually use improved Ignite to add +10 AP immediately, though its utility drops mid/endgame.


* Early AP is good, but only up to a point. This is because hungering strike deals the higher of flat damage vs percentage based damage. Early on, AP is awesome to ensure a strong nuke and strong heal. But you don't need it at all late game as the percentage will almost always be higher than even your AP-boosted value. Even you admit that using Hungering vs creeps is inferior due to this flat-damage mechanic. AP only affects this one single skill which becomes less and less relevant as you approach midgame.

Therefore I believe that your marks at least are better spent on more efficient magic penetration. This will increase the damage dealt to enemy champions and your healing probably as much as your AP runes would. In addition, they remain useful throughout the ENTIRE game. I also stick with CDR blue. For yellow I take mp regen/5 runes but I could see a case for something else.

I believe that having my +25 AP from ignite+dorans is really helpful but I don't see much value in boosting AP past that, except maybe for the Tome if you go malady.


* Hungering Strike range sucks. Vs melee champs it is great, but ashe/trist and most other mid champs can harass you easily and simply step back as you approach them. Therefore, you MUST heal by draining creeps to stay in the lane and cannot damage them. They say 400 range which sounds good, but everyone else has 600 range nukes which is a heck of a difference. (It feels like 300 range to me)

Ive tried it several times (top in 3v3) and ranged characters are very hard to deal with. I even had an unfair advantage due to the brush in 3v3 that would be missing in mid 5v5.

I mean, you have no slow at all and no way to approach them. You can't zone them...gimme a break man. They simply walk up to you and start shooting and as soon as you move towards them, they move back. Repeat. You cant eat continuous 50 damage auto-attacks when not attacking/draining anything.

Sure you can outheal Vlad, but he isn't gonna just sit there at 400 range trading nukes.

I would think WW would do better in 2v2 than solo. He is much more likely to be able to hit enemy champs with Hunger.


* Consider Wit's End. The magic resistance is really nice and helps a ton vs burst damage. The on-hit effect is very nasty with 210 damage and 210 mana drained with ult. It costs only slightly more than Malady with similar AS boost but higher damage. Against certain lineups, Wits End can be a lot more effective than malady. Sometimes it is not though.


* Dump haunting guise - Sorc shoes plus runes = 30 magic penetration. Even more with your malady. This is plenty for anyone with base MR plus 1 source of MR (merc treads, chalice, etc). Guise is 1500 gold and the AP is becoming irrelevant, the health not strictly needed, and the magic penetration a bit unnecessary. Sure its good, but it slows down the rest of your build.


* Solo mid is a tough call in 5v5. There are tons of champs who can do well in mid and will want mid. Getting your Warwick to take mid will be a tough sell! Almost all casters are very level dependent and will want solo. Ranged carries likewise. Is WW going mid really worth sticking your Maltazar on the sides?


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Alyzar

Senior Member

01-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Here is my critique:

* The 15% magic pen happens AFTER the rest of your penetration. In your 100MR example you would drop them from 100MR to 36, then 15% of that, which drops them to 30ish. Those 6 points are still valuable though, but not as much as your example indicates. I actually use improved Ignite to add +10 AP immediately, though its utility drops mid/endgame.
Will it use it if you don't have ignite?

Quote:
* Early AP is good, but only up to a point. This is because hungering strike deals the higher of flat damage vs percentage based damage. Early on, AP is awesome to ensure a strong nuke and strong heal. But you don't need it at all late game as the percentage will almost always be higher than even your AP-boosted value. Even you admit that using Hungering vs creeps is inferior due to this flat-damage mechanic. AP only affects this one single skill which becomes less and less relevant as you approach midgame.
Early AP isn't good, early AP is amazing.

Quote:
Therefore I believe that your marks at least are better spent on more efficient magic penetration. This will increase the damage dealt to enemy champions and your healing probably as much as your AP runes would. In addition, they remain useful throughout the ENTIRE game. I also stick with CDR blue. For yellow I take mp regen/5 runes but I could see a case for something else.
Okay, well, have fun with that.

Quote:
I believe that having my +25 AP from ignite+dorans is really helpful but I don't see much value in boosting AP past that, except maybe for the Tome if you go malady.
Quote:
* Hungering Strike range sucks. Vs melee champs it is great, but ashe/trist and most other mid champs can harass you easily and simply step back as you approach them. Therefore, you MUST heal by draining creeps to stay in the lane and cannot damage them. They say 400 range which sounds good, but everyone else has 600 range nukes which is a heck of a difference. (It feels like 300 range to me)
Okay? Like I said. Your ability to harrass them is built 100% on how stupid they are. Yes, with 50 AP from the start, I can outheal an ashe's harassment easily. So the only way Ashe can "kite me" if is she

a.) buys boots first
b.) Stays very far away from her creeps, because high movement speed + High radius on Hungering Strike = you can't approach the lane casually to last hit without getting hit for a large chunk of damage.

If she does kite me with volley and frost shot, okay, whatever, I turn around, heal completely for whatever minuscule damage Ashe did to me, and continue farm. Rinse and repeat, she continues to poke at and kite at me, I continue to farm, and heal up. I don't see what's hard to understand.

She harasses me.
I chase after her.
She kites me and hits me again
I turn around, and heal for the full amount,
Rinse and repeat 4 seconds later.

Quote:
Ive tried it several times (top in 3v3) and ranged characters are very hard to deal with. I even had an unfair advantage due to the brush in 3v3 that would be missing in mid 5v5.
You probably weren't using my build because I'm finding it a lot easier to do in mid.

Quote:
I mean, you have no slow at all and no way to approach them. You can't zone them...gimme a break man. They simply walk up to you and start shooting and as soon as you move towards them, they move back. Repeat. You cant eat continuous 50 damage auto-attacks when not attacking/draining anything.
Yes I can.

Quote:
Sure you can outheal Vlad, but he isn't gonna just sit there at 400 range trading nukes.
No, but I can outheal him.

Quote:
I would think WW would do better in 2v2 than solo. He is much more likely to be able to hit enemy champs with Hunger.
It's not about hitting champions with hunger, it's about out farming the people who aren't stupid enough to get in your range and killing the people who aren't.

Quote:
* Consider Wit's End. The magic resistance is really nice and helps a ton vs burst damage. The on-hit effect is very nasty with 210 damage and 210 mana drained with ult. It costs only slightly more than Malady with similar AS boost but higher damage. Against certain lineups, Wits End can be a lot more effective than malady. Sometimes it is not though.
Wits end is a good item, I just don't like it personally. Maybe I'll try it out in place of haunting guise, though.

Quote:
* Dump haunting guise - Sorc shoes plus runes = 30 magic penetration. Even more with your malady. This is plenty for anyone with base MR plus 1 source of MR (merc treads, chalice, etc). Guise is 1500 gold and the AP is becoming irrelevant, the health not strictly needed, and the magic penetration a bit unnecessary. Sure its good, but it slows down the rest of your build.
That's your opinion.

Quote:
* Solo mid is a tough call in 5v5. There are tons of champs who can do well in mid and will want mid. Getting your Warwick to take mid will be a tough sell! Almost all casters are very level dependent and will want solo. Ranged carries likewise. Is WW going mid really worth sticking your Maltazar on the sides?
Well, the premade I'm in doesn't go 2v2 malzahar, so I won't have to deal with that anyway.


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ReadInPeace

Senior Member

01-24-2011

Haven't tried this, but wouldn't Teemo do the same thing without damaging himself (thus better)?

You can use the same build on him, and he has range to deliver the damage.

Nice thinking, though.