Heimerdinger as of 1/18/2011

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Kawashima Ami

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Senior Member

01-19-2011

I mean to make this post as informative as I can.

The following changes were made to Heimerdinger in the patch of 1/18/2011:

Quote:
Heimerdinger
  • H28G Evolution Turret
    • Improved Turret AI so they will prioritize attacking Champions that attack Heimerdinger
    • Turrets now work on an ammo system (25 second ammo cooldown)
    • 1 second placement cooldown
    • Levelup progression changed:
      • Rank 2 - places green turrets
      • Rank 3 - places 2 turrets
      • Rank 4 - +150 Health
      • Rank 5 - places red turrets
    • Fixed a bug where Upgraded!!! turrets would stop firing resistance piercing and area-effect shots
    • Turrets now gain 15 health per Heimerdinger level down from 21
    • Turret magic resistance increased to 80 from 60
    • Tooltip now references 'turrets' rather than 'towers.'
  • Upgrade!!!
    • Now increases number of Hextech Micro Rockets to 5 while active
    • Now increases missile speed on Ch-1 Concussion Grenade to 1000 from 750 while active
  • Fixed a bug where Techmaturgical Repair Bots provided less health regeneration than stated
I'll start this off by saying the changes to Heimerdinger's ultimate are alright. Lasts long enough to get one '5 hextech rockets' off. So, that makes him a bit better in team fights, where I honestly felt he already had a strong presence pre-patch. The missile speed increase to his grenade is nice as well but it's not really game changing in my opinion. Additionally, you can only get off one special grenade as well. So, these buffs to his ultimate are in essence, extremely situational.

Here's where the problem with these side grade changes come in:

Ammo system. Ugh, it's truly just bad. I'll be honest, it's really nice being able to get two turrets down in a team fight, but they just die to AoE anyway. Level one turrets have really low HP and can be auto attacked down by almost any champion. It could be argued that turret placement is important, but if you back it up you can hurt your farm. (for those of you who believe you should be able to last hit without the turret, I agree that it is possible but this then makes one of his abilities not as useful) With the changes, Heimer does not get two turrets until level 5. I honestly believe this was a bad change. This means he can only store one turret until level 5. His turret will die soon after it being placed and have to wait an entire minion wave to replace it. Simply for it to be destroyed again. It truly feels ping pong. After level 5 you don't feel this as much as you can store 2 turrets instead of just one, but if you place both turrets and a team mate ends up needing assistance in the river or the jungle, you're down for ~22 seconds.

It's difficult for me to make this argument compelling because you seem so set on these changes and the use of the ammo system. I think with the ammo system you should have either allowed the use of more than 2 turrets OR increased his storage capacity but kept his max limit to 2. This would at least give him some more mobility. And if that is what you wanted his changes to look like, as a Heimerdinger player I must say... that's not what I felt.


As a side note, which is quite important to me.. The turret changes have made Heimerdinger a very inefficient jungler. The turrets no longer attack minions that are in sight unless Heimerdinger attacks first. This slows Heimer's jungle down. This is probably a bug. I think most players know that Heimer's turrets can be placed in Baron's range and get the debuff stacks without Heimer being attacked or the turrets so long as Heimer leaves his range.

Anyhow, Heimerdinger can no longer do blue or red buff before level 5 because he does not have multiple turrets. Not to mention the increased lay-down time between camps.


TL;DR: Heimerdinger needs increased capacity on turret storage for increased mobility and a reversion to two turrets at level 3 and green turrets at level 5. Ultimate changes are nice (thanks for the bug fix) but hold very limited usages, even in team fights where minions are often around, make them homing on champions perhaps? Nah, probably too strong of a change, even if you can only get one off in the ultimate time, right?

wtb Morello post.


-EDIT-
Morello post in a different thread with some reasoning behind the changes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Which is why his turret-reliant version was nerfed into the dirt. This type of gameplay creates worse lane stagnation and interesting back-and-forths (even removing activity in farming) than Vlad does. That kind of gameplay could be argued as fun for Heimer, but turns it into Molasses for everyone else and removes action.

We don't like having him sit there and not be able to ever be buffed, so we made changes that would, hopefully, allow Heimerdinger to get balance work while retaining some of his unique flavor. That doesn't mean creep and leapfrog turrets up to a tower with little effort.


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ZennShade

Senior Member

01-19-2011

No, Heimerdinger didn't even need the buffs he got.


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Trixie

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Senior Member

01-19-2011

This was not a buff or a nerf it was a step in the dark.


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Rainbow Slayer

Senior Member

01-19-2011

I've had no problems with the ammo system
I'm in fact loving it
Being able to pop down two turrets instantly is god like.

And I never find myself having to "save up" turrets
It just seems that whenever I need two turrets
They're there


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Kurosaki00

Senior Member

01-19-2011

it doesnt feel like a buff
hes ok
but when defending he got really nerfed


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

01-19-2011

I haven't been able to play the new Heimerdinger, but at first glance I did like his changes. After reading your post I understand a few things, which make me not very happy about his changes.

#1 Heimer can not place 2 turrets down until lvl 3 in Q. That either forces him to go a turret build early, or gimp himself early/mid-game with a build that does not focus on turrets.

#2 The ammo cooldown time is far too long for Heimer now, making it nearly impossible for a summoner to jungle with Heimer at early levels.

#3 The changes to Heimer's Ult are nice, but still have little in-game application - all are pretty much 1 use. (Not a big deal given the cooldown he receives for leveling it.)

I completely agree with the OP's TLDR - Allow Heimer to have two turrets again at lvl 3 (lvl 2 of Q) (I'd have to test to see if Ammo timers are effected by CDR before commenting on Ammo)


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Kawashima Ami

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Senior Member

01-19-2011

@Protosega, Zennshade, Kurosaki00

I did not call them buffs (unless I did). for most of these changes were side grades or... something that feels like a nerf.


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Kurosaki00

Senior Member

01-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawashima Ami View Post
@Protosega, Zennshade, Kurosaki00

I did not call them buffs (unless I did). for most of these changes were side grades or... something that feels like a nerf.
oh no no i was just commenting to the subject
I pretty much agree with you

and Nico ammo its affected by CDR
but with CDR MAXED is still DOUBLE the time it was before = nerf


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Man Dinh

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The Council

01-19-2011

I think overall, Heimer is neither buffed or nerfed. They just made a change to his playstyle, introducing a new learning curve. So for existing players, it may feel like a nerf. Because all the details and nuances that players previously exploited has drastically changed.


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Easy Slay

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Senior Member

01-19-2011

How are people saying Heimer isn't buffed? He has crazy burst now.


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