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Udyr - The jack of all trades, the master of none?

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Hikaratu

Senior Member

01-12-2010

also the aoe capabilities of pheonix are kind of an afterthough, specifically you get it to do dps, and when more than half your dps comes from magical damage as a hybrid built udyr you really screw with tanks who thought you were going to be physical (malphite/anyone else who wanted to stack armor vs you.) Phoenix builds often come out much higher dps than tiger builds late, though not mid game. By hybrid built I mean things like rageblade and nashtors, then follow up with things like madreds (its not worth it to stack non hybridized ap items for phoenix.)

You can also farm pretty much anywhere you want as long as you have half-decent map awareness because you can outrun pretty much anything if you start leaving before they come in stunning your ass.

He's a fine hero, he's not op, though some people are saying the next patch he is. I don't play the test realm so I don't know. He's definately fine where he's at now, he's not supposed to have the dps of yi or the other big hard carries. He comes close enough and has alot more utility.


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Tyrfang

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
Ytinasni:
Get to a high elo bracket, get harrassed to worthlessness by a ranged player that isnt braindead on 4 levels GG

That said, I think turtle shield is fine where it is, my build only grabs 3 ranks in it atm anyways.


Early game, turtle stance + vamp scepter allows you to laugh in the face of anyone solo mid.

Our mid couldn't put out enough damage with auto attack + abilities to outpace his life steal + turtle shield. It was literally impossible.


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Zenanii

Senior Member

01-12-2010

So until i get farmed late game im just a walking stun? At lest that's how i feel, and in teamfights im just a nuisance rather then a real threat.

Being immune to harras during laning is fun and all but it simply does not cut it as a reason to play him.

In every game i play him it feels like i would have been a much bigger asset to my team if i had just chocen Yi instead. With him i can start burst people down at lvl 10. Not to mention i scale better into late game.


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IMSavior

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
Zenanii:
So until i get farmed late game im just a walking stun? At lest that's how i feel, and in teamfights im just a nuisance rather then a real threat.

Being immune to harras during laning is fun and all but it simply does not cut it as a reason to play him.

In every game i play him it feels like i would have been a much bigger asset to my team if i had just chocen Yi instead. With him i can start burst people down at lvl 10. Not to mention i scale better into late game.


if you're immune to harass that means you can harass and make them scared of you

just walk back to their ranged minions and keep the other hero away, casting turtle to block attacks when you need to and attacking to regen life

doing this will keep their main carry away from farming gold / getting exp which would be a great reason to play him

not to mention he can interrupt any channeling ulti and is an amazing chaser and he rolls over towers like a beast

oh and his lifesteal / mana steal from turtle and stun in bear form still work even when you're blinded so...yeah


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Adorno

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Udyr puts out great DPS early w/Tiger or Phoenix. Of course, if you only level turtle and bear you are just a walking stun. That's why I'm not a fan of just leveling turtle/bear early. Getting some serious DPS online is really important...and really helpful to your defense, too. People don't F with you when then know you can kill them.


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Adorno

Senior Member

01-12-2010

I've posted this elsewhere several times, but want to add it here: with tiger, you need to prep it before you go into an attack. You can burst out a lot of damage by hitting tiger, waiting until you can activate bear, rushing in and landing the tiger hit while in bear stance, then immediately going into another tiger. In 1 second (while they're stunned), you can deal the equivalent of 3 seconds of attacks. Without this, tiger is simply inferior to Phoenix, even for single target DPS. With it, you have some great burst damage. People will definitely fear you. Squishies will die.

In team fights, you wait at least a few seconds (and possibly do the tiger prep). Go in once there's someone you can kill in a second or 2. Hopefully, that turns the tide and you're in mop-up mode. That's where you really shine. Once they start trying to escape, you hunt them down.


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Klazzix

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Udyr is for laughs when he runs thinking he's a plane in Phoenix Stance.


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Hikaratu

Senior Member

01-12-2010

to adorno on both his posts, for reference point

I ussually go turtle, bear, tiger, turtle, turtle, bear, bear, phoenix to 5, bear to 5, turtle to 5, finish tiger skillwise. Until I get phoenix to lvl 4-5 I use tiger and the tiger buff prepping for most of my dps until mid-late game, near the end most things happen spur of the moment and there's no time to prep tiger, but if there is I do tiger, then bear rush in and switch phoenix/bear/tiger/phoenix etc until I need to get out or everything died. It's important not to leave phoenix until 3 hits in it at least, not hard if you have decent aspd items at this point, 6 hits if you've been stance dancing and have the aspd cap or near it. If you're after something that isn't likely to run from you (tanks, carries who think they're winning) switch bear and tiger in the above rotation so it's phoenix/tiger/bear/phoenix.

The less experienced with udyr will ask why bother with bear at all in that case, it's because each stance has it's own "stack" of monkey's agility and you want the extra aspd/dodge for having 3stacks (you need cd reduction to get 3 going consistently but it's not hard to fit into udyr's item set anyway. Turtle potentially hurts dps too much and I don't think you can get 4stacks going even at 40% reduction, and even if you can it doesn't last long enough to warrent it in your attacking stance dance.

Edit:Obviously I change things up on occasion though, it's stupid to favor phoenix over tiger if you think most of thier teams going to have tons of MR that game so items and rotations also change.


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Adorno

Senior Member

01-13-2010

Very cool, Hik. It's very similar to how I build him...although I'd been prioritizing tiger. I'd even been getting tiamat to give me pushing ability in tiger/turtle, and pushing Phoenix off entirely. It was fun, and surprisingly good, but just didn't feel like the way he was meant to be played. That will probably change after the patch.

I suspect. phoenix is going to be a sort of "keystone" stance for him, and I can even imagine going something like "Turtle, Phoenix, Bear, Phoenix, Phoenix, Tiger" to start. Could quite possibly put out some mean DPS in the 4 seconds or so that you may have to pound on people. W/Reduced cooldown, I'm fascinated by the fact that you probably want a Phoenix and Tiger prep before you have "initial impact" with bear. Also, it seems like you'll be able to truly fit two stances between your Phoenixes and still keep the aura up all the time. I like that general direction: rewarding increased complexity in how you play him. Hope he isn't too OP


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