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Your build sucks!

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PineapplePine

Senior Member

01-16-2011

Quote:
Karathrow:
Perhaps my comparison was not well formed but the point is that if you naturally get something from your character, then you should look elsewhere for stats to stack.

Regardless if you do the math on effective health the point stands. With your base armor and MR, its more important for cho to prioritize more MR and some armor due to naturally high health. More armor and MR will drastically increase your effective health moreso than actual hp stacking would.

5k hp is nice, but I dont see how you can really get it without giving up something more important like utility, armor/mr or even damage.


You should throw in a note that stacking more Health is better when the opposing team have champions that deal true damage (e.g. Olaf, Cho'Gath). Not saying just stack health but prioritize a bit more Health over AR/MR (recall that getting plain Health isn't as effective as AR/MR and Health but plain Health boost the eHP of Physical and Magical damage rather than just one or the other).


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jesuschicken

Member

01-16-2011

Thank you for the new heimerdinger build ill be sure to try it soon =). Just one more thing, for a runebook designated specifically for heimerdinger what would be the best runes for it. Right now for marks i have magic penetration, for seals i have cd reduction, for glyphs i have ap per lvl, and for my quints i have 1 magic pen, and 2 ap. any help making my heimer runebook better?


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Doriantv

Member

01-16-2011

Almost all good Caster players I see build Rabadon's and Banshee's Veil, with Catalyst first.


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RagnarVonBloodax

Senior Member

01-16-2011

Quote:
A better Cho'Gath gets around 5k health when fully feasted, with 20 stacks of leviathan and warmogs while gaining crit/AP with atma's impaler and magic resist/armor with guardian angel and force of nature


Atma's Impaler gives AP? I thought it was crit, armor, and AD? Then again I almost never use it so I could be mistaken.


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Karathrow

Senior Member

01-16-2011

Quote:
RagnarVonBloodax:
Atma's Impaler gives AP? I thought it was crit, armor, and AD? Then again I almost never use it so I could be mistaken.


It gives crit armor and AD based on a % of your health, it does not give AP. I believe he meant AD or he is just mistaken.


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Karathrow

Senior Member

01-16-2011

Quote:
PineapplePine:
You should throw in a note that stacking more Health is better when the opposing team have champions that deal true damage (e.g. Olaf, Cho'Gath). Not saying just stack health but prioritize a bit more Health over AR/MR (recall that getting plain Health isn't as effective as AR/MR and Health but plain Health boost the eHP of Physical and Magical damage rather than just one or the other).


This is true but I don't really need to sell health to people. Most people buy too much health as it is. The bigger problem is the people making the false correlation that "because my champ naturally get X stat, that means its good for him/her and I should stack more of it".

Like on rammus or garen for example. They have naturally high armor and MR (rammus perhaps not as much outside of DBC, but still) So the value of health is much higher. I see a lot of people stacking armor on rammus which confuses me. Just because you deal extra damage from stacking armor, does not mean you can stop trying to build like a tank. It's absolutely mind boggling why people run around with base MR on rammus and just a ton of armor. You have to balance your stats. I don't know what kind of mantra needs to be coined or spread to get people to understand this. You can't simply stack one thing and be an effective player. Again, if your champ already gets X stat in large quantities, build for what he or she DOESNT already have instead of stacking more of that same stat.

I suppose I am skewing things by not factoring in true damage but there's only a handful of sources of true damage and by the by it's usually a bigger problem that people are buying too much health than it is people buying too much armor or mr.


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Karathrow

Senior Member

01-16-2011

Quote:
jesuschicken:
Thank you for the new heimerdinger build ill be sure to try it soon =). Just one more thing, for a runebook designated specifically for heimerdinger what would be the best runes for it. Right now for marks i have magic penetration, for seals i have cd reduction, for glyphs i have ap per lvl, and for my quints i have 1 magic pen, and 2 ap. any help making my heimer runebook better?



I can't speak for everyone but my personal preference for casters is

-spell pen marks (8.5 spell pen, but I think the game rounds it up to 9)
-flat armor seals (everyone starts with less armor than they do MR. If the enemy team has armor pen marks they will reduce your armor to 0 and make you take full damage from attacks. These are really important early game. Note that I prefer these to dodge due to consistency.)
-Flat health quintessences (gives about 100 hp, same as a dorans item. Allows more flexibility in early game builds and reduces teh chance you'll fight someone 200 hp higher than you)
-Flat CDR glyphs (these come out to I believe 5.85% CDR. If you use a 9/0/21 mastery setup with heimer and flat cdr glyphs you will have 14.85% CDR at level 1. Your ult at max rank gives 20% cdr I believe so that leaves you at 34.85% CDR. With a blue pot or golem you are at the cooldown cap and this frees you up from having to itemize your build for CDR.


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HMS BUTTPEE

Senior Member

01-16-2011

Quote:
Stacking health is purely about getting a ton of health. A good tank Cho'Gath as you said, balances out armor/magic resistance/health. A better Cho'Gath gets around 5k health when fully feasted, with 20 stacks of leviathan and warmogs while gaining crit/AP with atma's impaler and magic resist/armor with guardian angel and force of nature. Getting the best out of everything is the way to go.


Incorrect. Neither Warmog's nor Leviathan are core on tank Cho. Rylai's Scepter/RoA are both much better, even when going tank. You benefit SO much more from the AP, because that little bit of health pushes you into I have 3K easy territory. And at that point you will benefit more from resists than you will HP.

Quote:

5k hp is nice, but I dont see how you can really get it without giving up something more important like utility, armor/mr or even damage.


The answer you don't, and that that build is not good at all. Moreover, the fact that you get CDR and resists from items like Spirit Visage and Glacial Shroud makes that build even worse.

Karathrow, if your name is actually a reference to Kara Throws, you are my hero.


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Karathrow

Senior Member

01-16-2011

It is indeed .


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