[Guide] Sivir the Battle Mistress - A Comprehensive Guide

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EasymodeX

Senior Member

01-20-2011

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I’m running 0/21/9 masteries on Sivir, and from your emphasis on the early game it’s pretty safe to assume that you are likely running something ******ed like 21/0/9.
You have zero reading comprehension.

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Second of all, that’s also two shots of mine that you’ll be taking while you “step to the side a bit” which more than makes up for the 8 more damage you do,
The positioning is done before engagement, which is out of Sivir AA range. You're talking theory that you've never seen in action. I'm simply stating a detailed progression of something I expect every competent laner (who uses AAs) to leverage.

If you're not attacking your opponent at every opportunity for a positive net gain in HPxmana tradeoff, you're not trying hard enough. If you think that creeps are scary, you're a newbie.

I mean, I could even talk about moving out of minion aggro during the projectile travel time, but you'd probably blindly discount that as well. I could even mention how it's relatively similar to orb walking in DotA, but again you don't sound like you have the experience to understand the harassment concept.

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By the way, I do appreciate the discussion and all the bumps you've been giving my guide. I'm sure it helps to really give it some extra depth with this debate on Doran vs Meki start. Thanks!
Shrug. It's about the only thing semi-interesting on the front page, and you keep responding. So, good enough for me. I'm still amused that you discount any Manamune build even in the situations where it is logical, and use a classic example of cognitive dissonance to justify that your guide is flawless.


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Subdue

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Senior Member

01-20-2011

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You have zero reading comprehension.
With regards to what?



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The positioning is done before engagement, which is out of Sivir AA range. You're talking theory that you've never seen in action. I'm simply stating a detailed progression of something I expect every competent laner (who uses AAs) to leverage.

If you're not attacking your opponent at every opportunity for a positive net gain in HPxmana tradeoff, you're not trying hard enough. If you think that creeps are scary, you're a newbie.

I mean, I could even talk about moving out of minion aggro during the projectile travel time, but you'd probably blindly discount that as well. I could even mention how it's relatively similar to orb walking in DotA, but again you don't sound like you have the experience to understand the harassment concept.
I played Sivir all through out my 1-30 climb, many many normal matches after that, and so far in 19 ranked matches, of which I've won 14. We are sitting at just about the same Elo, so I doubt your skills and experience are much better than mine if at all. You aren't the first person to try and play aggressively against me, nor do I expect you to be the last. The fact of the matter is, the number of champs and players that have driven me out of my lane before I could purchase Chalice have been few and far between, and those that could do so after I grabbed Chalice are even fewer. When I tell you that if you charge at me trying to look all scary and aggressive-like I will stand my ground, trade boomerangs and autoattacks, and likely come out on top, it's because that has worked many times before. It's not just random theory crafting.



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Shrug. It's about the only thing semi-interesting on the front page, and you keep responding. So, good enough for me. I'm still amused that you discount any Manamune build even in the situations where it is logical, and use a classic example of cognitive dissonance to justify that your guide is flawless.
There are very few points in the game where Manamune is advantages. It causes you to have a weaker early and late game for a marginally stronger mid game. I say marginally, because it's really only about 1000 gold stronger, 500 if you count selling off the Chalice at level 14-16 when you dont need it anymore.

If you really insist on grabbing Banshee's Veil over Warmogs as your defensive item, by all means go for it. But Warmogs is the stronger choice in many many more situations, and is only slightly eclipsed by Banshee's Veil even in the face of CCs.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

01-20-2011

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When I tell you that if you charge at me trying to look all scary and aggressive-like I will stand my ground, trade boomerangs and autoattacks, and likely come out on top, it's because that has worked many times before. It's not just random theory crafting.
You've seen a newb "charge" at you and trade attacks. This illustrates the fundamental difference in our experience. I played DotA on and off for 8+ years. I'm not super pro by any means, but I can "orb walk" with Razor. LoL creep aggression mechanics are a little more "sticky" than DotA's (probably intentional to help newbies fail less at lane control), but fundamentally they are the same -- you can de-aggro a lot between attacks.

The difference in the basic concept of hitting someone to harass them makes a lot of this discussion pointless. You assume strange things like I would be hit by many minion attacks. I really don't have much to say to that, I suppose.

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If you really insist on grabbing Banshee's Veil over Warmogs as your defensive item, by all means go for it. But Warmogs is the stronger choice in many many more situations, and is only slightly eclipsed by Banshee's Veil even in the face of CCs.
You try a bit too hard to contrive conditions where Manamune would be less effective. Lol?

There's even the case where any Warmog build should use a Manamune over Chalice, because it builds a baseline level of AD sooner than Chalice + BFS. Nevermind the fact that a Mana Crystal > Meki as a starter item with SOS. But these are minor details.


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Subdue

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Senior Member

01-21-2011

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
You've seen a newb "charge" at you and trade attacks. This illustrates the fundamental difference in our experience. I played DotA on and off for 8+ years. I'm not super pro by any means, but I can "orb walk" with Razor. LoL creep aggression mechanics are a little more "sticky" than DotA's (probably intentional to help newbies fail less at lane control), but fundamentally they are the same -- you can de-aggro a lot between attacks.

The difference in the basic concept of hitting someone to harass them makes a lot of this discussion pointless. You assume strange things like I would be hit by many minion attacks. I really don't have much to say to that, I suppose.



You try a bit too hard to contrive conditions where Manamune would be less effective. Lol?

There's even the case where any Warmog build should use a Manamune over Chalice, because it builds a baseline level of AD sooner than Chalice + BFS. Nevermind the fact that a Mana Crystal > Meki as a starter item with SOS. But these are minor details.
I'm merely stating that in most situations where Spell Shield is insufficient, Warmog's Armor gives you a better chance of surviving than Banshee's Veil, and that while Manamune -can- give you some AD while you build up to Warmog + Atmas, it's eclipsed by the availability of BF sword with a Chalice build for only 600 more gold, which can then be built into a Blood Thirster after Warmogs.

As for your comments about Dota, I can't really respond to that as I was never an avid dota player.


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MBirk

Senior Member

01-21-2011

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
Nevermind the fact that a Mana Crystal > Meki as a starter item with SOS. But these are minor details.
Dude. what?
SoS isnt 3% you know. its .3%. 200 mana x .003.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

01-21-2011

Check it out in-game; it's substantial difference in HP regen.


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Subdue

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Senior Member

01-21-2011

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
Check it out in-game; it's substantial difference in HP regen.
At level 1 Sivir has a base total mana of 246. With a Sapphire Crystal she has 446 mana. With Strength of Spirit that results in 6.69 life per 5 seconds, or 1.338 life per second. In other words it's worth a little less than a Rejuvenation Bead (250g) at level 1.

At level 10 Sivir has a base mana of 633, or 833 with that Sapphire Crystal. SoS results in 2.499 hp/s, or 12.495 hp/5s, or a little less than a Regrowth Pendant (435g).

After level 10 you should have your first Blood Thirster, and your life leech far outweighs any health regen you have. Or, if you built for Warmog's, Warmog's Health regen far outweighs any you would have gotten from SoS. Sivir doesn't have much natural mana, so SoS isn't really the best mastery for her.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

01-21-2011

Rofl.

And the +60 hp on Veteran Scars is worthless because a Warmog gives you over 9000 hp.

Ohwait.


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MBirk

Senior Member

01-21-2011

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Originally Posted by Dominatius Maxim View Post
At level 1 Sivir has a base total mana of 246. With a Sapphire Crystal she has 446 mana. With Strength of Spirit that results in 6.69 life per 5 seconds, or 1.338 life per second. In other words it's worth a little less than a Rejuvenation Bead (250g) at level 1.

At level 10 Sivir has a base mana of 633, or 833 with that Sapphire Crystal. SoS results in 2.499 hp/s, or 12.495 hp/5s, or a little less than a Regrowth Pendant (435g).

After level 10 you should have your first Blood Thirster, and your life leech far outweighs any health regen you have. Or, if you built for Warmog's, Warmog's Health regen far outweighs any you would have gotten from SoS. Sivir doesn't have much natural mana, so SoS isn't really the best mastery for her.
And to be clear. I'm not saying SoS is bad.
Im saying .6hp/s from that 200 mana is.
Dorins shield is 1.6hp/s.
Regrowth is 3hp/s

Claiming sapph crystal is better then meki cuase it gives .6hp/s is ridiculous.


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Subdue

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Senior Member

01-21-2011

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
Rofl.

And the +60 hp on Veteran Scars is worthless because a Warmog gives you over 9000 hp.

Ohwait.
You of all people should know the value of flat life in the early levels. Hell you spent the last 4 pages in this thread arguing about how 100 life from Doran's Blade gave you such a huge advantage! Now you're comparing 6 hp/5 to 60 flat health at level 1? Tisk Tisk, stick to your guns man!