How to "deny" in LoL

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darkFUZZ

Junior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraph View Post
Shrug, sounds the same to me. Pah-tae-toe, Poe-tat-o.
It's simply not the same. To metaphorize what your saying its like comparing peas and corn, yes they're still vegitables and yes they are both healthy, but no they ARE NOT the same thing. The point of denying by last hit is having to avoid the unnecesary fights that come with being agressive, its to control xp and gold gain of the opponent while still being able to play back and conservative. Last hit denying has been and is huge while playing dota, its a way for a skilled player to far exceed a moderately good player, its something that requires timing and practice due to the fact not every hero has the same attack speed, and not every hero's attack has the same speed while in flight (for the ranged). With denying the point is NOT to fight the enemy but to give yourself a substantial advantage in the long run without having to get into unnecessary fights that you could potentially lose due to the hero combinations in that lane. Also a HUGE point to last hit denys in dota is for free farming, when you use the siege units to keep the creeps closer to your tower for an infinite ammount of time, until one of your moronic teammates that makes you facepalm, comes up and clears the wave, or the enemy tries to gank. In Dota to keep a constant creep kill status of 100+ when combining kills/denies is a sure fire way to dominate a lane and farm enough to have the winning hand, and you have to pretty much be a window licker to lose there after. What you are talking about is harrassing the opponent not denying. and i agree with whoever said stop trying to rename old lingo for LOL, because you apparently have no idea why denying is so important in DOTA. And frankly yes i am a newb when it comes to LOL and it shocked me and made me question why LOl did not have last hit denies i just hope they add it in later patches for both ladder and normal or at the very least for ladder games.


Facepalm you loud harley owner.


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darkFUZZ

Junior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Princess Party View Post
Best Deny Scenario is to keep someone out of the EXP zone and just last hit creeps. Then you fall back let them gain some ground, and then rush them. Most people run when they get rushed. Thats where exhaust/ignite comes into play. Seems like the most common form of denial imo.

Best lane denial combo I've ever been a part of was Janna/Malphite or Janna/Alistar. Alistar last hits the melees. I play janna in between the creeps and their owners chain casting damage buff/damage shield on myself, and casting tornadoes. If you buy nothing but mana pots, you can normally make it to level 6 when their still level 4 and go home and get yourself your boots.

buying so many mana pots is a HUGE waste of gold, you would be better off playing with a friend and both getting Clarity with the mastery buff, and just sitting there spamming while your partner, preferably a carry last hits for gold.

still not denying imo >.>


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lain777

Member

02-19-2010

well..a much more easier but not as effective way would just try to push the creeps wave to their tower, which mean wif the tower there they cant realy get much last hit. Of course this would have a tons of disadvantages. but it is significantly easier as well.


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banduan

Senior Member

02-19-2010

this is not called 'denying' as what most players refer to. This is 'lane control'. I think Shurelia posted a video about this.


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Kaniol

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Member

02-19-2010

This is so wrong, oh god. Denying = killing your minion before enemy can last hit it, only 1 character is capable of doing this - gangplank with his raise morale and it is not too effective.

What you wanted to talk about was HARASSING enemy opponent.
Zilean with his auto-attack range and range of his bombs is great harasser/babysitter (makes sure that his lane partner gets lots of mob kills without being harassed because enemies know that their aggression will always meet response from Zil) as well. While harassing you have to be careful not to mistake it with aggressive play and trying to get kills - DON'T do this! You want to make them afraid of last hitting and ideally for your lane partner to get huge number of mob kills without any worries (thats yet another reason why pure ap Zileans suck btw)


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hermeneutist

Senior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraph View Post
If they aren't there to last hit the creep, how is that not denying?
If they aren't there to receive the experience, because they're too far away, how is that not denying?
Truth.

LoLdeny is harder and much more satisfying when achieved. just try it.


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Vordrax

Senior Member

02-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkFUZZ View Post
In Dota to keep a constant creep kill status of 100+ when combining kills/denies is a sure fire way to dominate a lane and farm enough to have the winning hand, and you have to pretty much be a window licker to lose there after.

You pretty much posted the reason, I'm fairly certain, why denying isn't in League of Legends. The developers wanted the focus to be on team coordination and strategy, not on A-clicking your way to glory. If the majority of the players on LoL wanted to play a game with denial, we'd play DotA or HoN. I've read all the reasons why denial should be in the game, and not found a single one I thought intelligent.

I've heard that it raises the skill cap, but if the game design is such that the focus isn't on that menial skill, then how would it help the game? It would be like if you were playing Team Fortress and you had to tap a key to reload each individual bullet into a clip and then hit another key to jam it in. Yes, it would require "more skill" to win a gunfight, but it would also be an absolutely stupid addition because the focus of the game isn't on "tapping a button to reload during a team fight," it focuses on the skill of shooting people in the face.

And, League of Legends doesn't focus on the "skill" of hitting A and then clicking on a friendly mob. It doesn't focus (heavily) on ridiculously overpowered Agi carries whose goal is to farm for the entire game and then dominate easily. The focus of LoL is on team dynamics and intelligent play (such as being FORCED to be aggressive if you want to control a lane like this- high risk, high reward). If you don't like it, there are other options out there.


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Bubonic

Senior Member

02-20-2010

How to "deny" in LoL------------ Play Gangplank or Spec Teleport


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