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Tanky Sivir

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Lollama

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
Dominatius Maxim:
I do a variant of this one which I've found seems to make you a stronger participant in team fights all game long. Rather than rushing Warmogs then Atmas, Rush a B.F. Sword first. That way you'll have additional damage output while you're farming for your Warmogs/Atmas.

Also, judging from your build, you must either max Ricochet before Boomerang Blade, which is suboptimal, or you run into massive mana problems. My typical progression is:

Chalice, Boots 1, B.F. Sword, Berserker Greaves, Warmogs, Blood Thirster, Atmas, Last Whisper

or

Chalice, Boots 1, B.F. Sword, Berserker Greaves, Blood Thirster, Last Whisper, Blood Thirster

Of course if the team is really CC heavy I'll grab Banshee's Veil somewhere in there, but that's the typical progression.

Oh, and for summoner skills, Teleport + Flash is almost a must.


Mana problems? I am fine with just blocking spells with my spell shield for mana. Also, hey nubs! This is a TANK Sivir build, not a Bloodthirster stack build! I get Banshee's so I can block 2 spells at once, get some health and more magic resist. Imagine it, blocking both of those spells can be retartedly epic. I never said that the Bloodthirster build would be better guys! I said this is a TANK build not a pure DPS build. Learn to read! Jeez!


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biomorph

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
ShadowLight2143:
Why do you need Banshee's Veil? With extreme pro skills, you can block spells with just Spell Shield

I used the think that SS was more than enough ... then I ran into a viciously effective Kennen and soon I relized that throwing a SS was like a drop in the water. But you dont have to be that specific. Imagine a caster heavy team with lots of CC. Banshee will make a VERY nice addition to your survivability along with SS and STILL I would recommend merc treads because eventually you will get caught. Was up against a team with Sion, Amumu and Malzahar the other day and it was a nightmare. So many times I could get out with very low health thanks to Banshee + Merc Treads. While you often want Zerkers for attack speed - if you allow a pun - dead dps = no dps.


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Subdue

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
Lollama:
Mana problems? I am fine with just blocking spells with my spell shield for mana. Also, hey nubs! This is a TANK Sivir build, not a Bloodthirster stack build! I get Banshee's so I can block 2 spells at once, get some health and more magic resist. Imagine it, blocking both of those spells can be retartedly epic. I never said that the Bloodthirster build would be better guys! I said this is a TANK build not a pure DPS build. Learn to read! Jeez!


Anyone can say they do fine just with blocking with spell shield, but that's just because they're not using their skills to their fullest. Boomerang Blade costs over 100 mana after level 1, and is on just about the same cooldown as Spell Shield. So, even if we work under the assumption that every time you cast Spell Shield, you will successfully catch a spell and regain mana, it isn't enough to keep your mana up for use with Boomerang Blade. So if you're saying you don't have mana issues, you're either not going with Boomerang Blade first, which makes your early game a lot weaker, or you're not throwing your Boomerang Blade every time you have a chance to accomplish something with it. The saying goes, you miss every shot you don't take.

As for your post, you actually said it's a TANKY build, not a TANK build. There is a difference.

Tank: To attract the fire of the enemy team and absorb damage. To protect your teammates.

Tanky: To be difficult to kill.

The first variant I posted matches the survivability (and therefore tankiness) of your build at just about every point in the game, and has higher damage output to make you more of a threat.

As a side note, the moron building Triforce on Sivir who has no spammable abilities shouldn't be calling people nubs.

In regards to Banshee's Veil, I think it's a good choice with Sivir, but it shouldn't take priority over your Blood Thirster or your Warmogs/Atmas combo, whichever you are going for. Your Spellshield with some practice can accomplish the same thing in most situations. Just remember not to use your Spellshield while Banshee's Veil's shield is up. One spell breaks both.

As for Mercury Treads, I find Boots of Swiftness add more survivability against CCs for squishier champions, so I wouldn't recommend them for a non warmog's build. In general though, if they have so much CC that Banshee's Veil AND your Spellshield aren't enough to keep you from getting trapped, that reduced duration on Mercury Treads probably won't do anything either.


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WithoutSkill

Senior Member

01-13-2011

I approve banshees. I ran in a banshee morgana and she was unkillable.


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Lollama

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
Dominatius Maxim:
Anyone can say they do fine just with blocking with spell shield, but that's just because they're not using their skills to their fullest. Boomerang Blade costs over 100 mana after level 1, and is on just about the same cooldown as Spell Shield. So, even if we work under the assumption that every time you cast Spell Shield, you will successfully catch a spell and regain mana, it isn't enough to keep your mana up for use with Boomerang Blade. So if you're saying you don't have mana issues, you're either not going with Boomerang Blade first, which makes your early game a lot weaker, or you're not throwing your Boomerang Blade every time you have a chance to accomplish something with it. The saying goes, you miss every shot you don't take.

As for your post, you actually said it's a TANKY build, not a TANK build. There is a difference.

Tank: To attract the fire of the enemy team and absorb damage. To protect your teammates.

Tanky: To be difficult to kill.

The first variant I posted matches the survivability (and therefore tankiness) of your build at just about every point in the game, and has higher damage output to make you more of a threat.

As a side note, the moron building Triforce on Sivir who has no spammable abilities shouldn't be calling people nubs.

In regards to Banshee's Veil, I think it's a good choice with Sivir, but it shouldn't take priority over your Blood Thirster or your Warmogs/Atmas combo, whichever you are going for. Your Spellshield with some practice can accomplish the same thing in most situations. Just remember not to use your Spellshield while Banshee's Veil's shield is up. One spell breaks both.

As for Mercury Treads, I find Boots of Swiftness add more survivability against CCs for squishier champions, so I wouldn't recommend them for a non warmog's build. In general though, if they have so much CC that Banshee's Veil AND your Spellshield aren't enough to keep you from getting trapped, that reduced duration on Mercury Treads probably won't do anything either.


Hey listen here, ******. I DID make a mistake, but this IS TANKY. Trinity, how about the boomerand blade, or your ultimate or spell shield? Boots of swiftness are not that needed, since I find the speed to be enough. Early game blocking spells with spell shield is fine, why? I don't use my Q every possible second to waste 1000 mana in 3 seconds! Heez. Case closed, this build sucks. Does it? Try it before you comment ffs


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Subdue

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
Lollama:
Hey listen here, ******. I DID make a mistake, but this IS TANKY. Trinity, how about the boomerand blade, or your ultimate or spell shield? Boots of swiftness are not that needed, since I find the speed to be enough. Early game blocking spells with spell shield is fine, why? I don't use my Q every possible second to waste 1000 mana in 3 seconds! Heez. Case closed, this build sucks. Does it? Try it before you comment ffs


You just made me laugh right there. Boomerang Blade has a 9 second cool down. And now let's say you're a moron and you use Spellshield to proc Trinity's effect. I'm not even going to entertain the idea of using your Ultimate for proccing Trinity, because I hope you're not THAT incompetent. Let's be generous and say you have a total of 200 with your Trinity build. That mean every 9 seconds your will do an extra 300 x 2 damage. Contrast that to building 2 B.F. swords for less than the price of your Trinity. You're now do 100 extra damage EACH attack. With no attack speed bonuses and with her Ultimate not activated, Sivir's attack speed is about 1.3. That means that the 2 B.F. swords give you a bonus 1,170 damage, almost DOUBLE the effect of Trinity. But of course Trinity adds 30 damage too. So let's take that into account. Over the course of 9 seconds that 30 damage results in an additional 351 damage. Which means even with procs off both your Boomerang Blade and your Spellshield, Trinity still doesn't add as much damage as 2 B.F. swords, for 400 gold less. Besides, 2 B.F. swords adds 75 damage to your Boomerang Blade, but Trinity only adds 45 (Assuming the Ratio is .75, which it was last I checked).

As for using your Boomerang Blade more often, I KNOW you don't. I pointed that out in my previous post. The point is, the more often you use it, the better you'll be both at farming AND harassing the opponent. The more you have to conserve your mana, the LESS you're harassing your opponent. I guess it didn't sink in the first time I said it, but hopefully it will sink in this time.


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Ramoth

Senior Member

01-13-2011

When I play sivir, here's what I go:

Yellow regen per lvl
Blue CD
Magic pen marks, for your boomerang. it's good for the early game, when you'll be hitting mostly with boom and ricochet.

Teleport + mastery, you're sivir. Thou shalt defend thine turrets and backdoor when possible.
Clarity, for mass rang spam early game. try to throw your rang whenever it's on CD. with chalice, you have no mana problems, and are a ***** to kill.

Masteries: 9/0/21. CD, mana regen, movement speed, and the magic pen on the attack side.

Meki
Chalice
Zerker boots
Thirster
stark's
Madreds (if playing a team of chunkies, I get madreds instead of thirster, since the 4% magic damage does more anyways..)
then some sort of defensive item depending on the team. So a shee's if mage heavy, frozen heart if melee heavy
If I still have time, I replace chalice with manamune. More damage, and all the mana I need.

that's what I build, and I find it extremely effective. Especially against tanks. Just focus the chunkiest person on their team once you have madreds and your ult, and watch the whole team melt from your ricochets.


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Subdue

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
Ramoth:
When I play sivir, here's what I go:

Yellow regen per lvl
Blue CD
Magic pen marks, for your boomerang. it's good for the early game, when you'll be hitting mostly with boom and ricochet.

Teleport + mastery, you're sivir. Thou shalt defend thine turrets and backdoor when possible.
Clarity, for mass rang spam early game. try to throw your rang whenever it's on CD. with chalice, you have no mana problems, and are a ***** to kill.

Masteries: 9/0/21. CD, mana regen, movement speed, and the magic pen on the attack side.

Meki
Chalice
Zerker boots
Thirster
stark's
Madreds (if playing a team of chunkies, I get madreds instead of thirster, since the 4% magic damage does more anyways..)
then some sort of defensive item depending on the team. So a shee's if mage heavy, frozen heart if melee heavy
If I still have time, I replace chalice with manamune. More damage, and all the mana I need.

that's what I build, and I find it extremely effective. Especially against tanks. Just focus the chunkiest person on their team once you have madreds and your ult, and watch the whole team melt from your ricochets.


Chalice + Regen runes (even just Glyph ones) will have your available all game. That Clarity is a wasted summoner spell.

Madreds is a noob trap on Sivir. Even if you assume your enemy has 5k life, you get more out of building another Blood Thirster, or a Last Whisper than you do out of Madreds, because Madreds doesn't proc off your Ricochet. Plus, among carries, Sivir is the only one who can target the tank and kill the squishies behind him with the bounce.

You don't "replace Chalice with Manamune". That's just silly. Once you don't need Chalice for the mana regen because your Clarity runes are in full effect, you sell it off and buy another Blood Thirster, or some other damage item.


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Subdue

Senior Member

01-13-2011

Quote:
Ramoth:
When I play sivir, here's what I go:

Yellow regen per lvl
Blue CD
Magic pen marks, for your boomerang. it's good for the early game, when you'll be hitting mostly with boom and ricochet.

Teleport + mastery, you're sivir. Thou shalt defend thine turrets and backdoor when possible.
Clarity, for mass rang spam early game. try to throw your rang whenever it's on CD. with chalice, you have no mana problems, and are a ***** to kill.

Masteries: 9/0/21. CD, mana regen, movement speed, and the magic pen on the attack side.

Meki
Chalice
Zerker boots
Thirster
stark's
Madreds (if playing a team of chunkies, I get madreds instead of thirster, since the 4% magic damage does more anyways..)
then some sort of defensive item depending on the team. So a shee's if mage heavy, frozen heart if melee heavy
If I still have time, I replace chalice with manamune. More damage, and all the mana I need.

that's what I build, and I find it extremely effective. Especially against tanks. Just focus the chunkiest person on their team once you have madreds and your ult, and watch the whole team melt from your ricochets.


Chalice + Regen runes (even just Glyph ones) will have your available all game. That Clarity is a wasted summoner spell.

Madreds is a noob trap on Sivir. Even if you assume your enemy has 5k life, you get more out of building another Blood Thirster, or a Last Whisper than you do out of Madreds, because Madreds doesn't proc off your Ricochet. Plus, among carries, Sivir is the only one who can target the tank and kill the squishies behind him with the bounce.

You don't "replace Chalice with Manamune". That's just silly. Once you don't need Chalice for the mana regen because your Clarity runes are in full effect, you sell it off and buy another Blood Thirster, or some other damage item.

Also, the cdr build is interesting, but you might want to try a 0/21/9 build instead. Still plenty of mana regen, you get a 2-4% boost in attack speed, and you become harder to kill. Trust me, when you are dealing a ton of damage and have no reliable CC, you can bet those assassins on the other team will be coming after you.


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Ramoth

Senior Member

01-14-2011

I almost never get to the manamune.. I'll try it if I get that far.

As for clarity being useless, I use it all the time in the lane phase: IE I throw BB every time it's off cooldown and leave ricochet on. I still have mana problems, but I don't lose the laning phase, so for me personally, it's a worthy trade-off.

The madreds.. you sure? Getting 2.4 att speed against a tank when you use it melts him so fast.


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