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"Flow" is what Riot developers should be providing

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dredzach

Senior Member

01-11-2011

Flow describes what it takes for LoL to be enjoyable to a player.

I am gonna just quote from my book, cause I immediately thought about LoL when I read it. Everyone should find it interesting, and Riot developers should find it educational.

Quote:
Like some concepts of leisure or play, flow is activity which is an end in itself. It is self-contained (autoelic). Psychologist Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi describes the flow experience as follows:

...a sense that one's skills are adequate to cope with the challenges at hand in a goal-directed, rule-bound action system that provides clear cues as to how well one is performing. Concentration is so intense that there is no attention left over to think about anything irrelevant, or to worry about problems. Self-consciousness disappears, and the sense of time becomes distorted.

An activity that produces such experiences is so gratifying that people are willing to do it for its own sake, with little concern for what they will get out of it, even when it is difficult, or dangerous.


In flow experiences, there is a challenge which is in line with the skills of the individual involved. If the challenge is much greater than the skills of the individual, anxiety is produced. If the challenge is much less than the individual's skills, boredom is produced.
I think the part in bold is especially important, and perhaps not given enough attention in this game. What do you guys think?

P.S. This post is informative only. I am not trying to persuade, merely to inform and enlighten. Hopefully Riot will start guiding their development by flow more than they do now, because challenge is lacking in this game.


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Dayor Knight

Recruiter

01-11-2011

Okay... so what?

I'm going to act as if you are in college, and treat this like you responded to a question I might have asked.

First, what is the problem? You did nothing but point out what the problem might look like, but you never identified the issue. Is it the matchmaking system? Is it character balance? What exactly is it that upsets this notion of "flow"? If you are ONLY making an observation, then please be more specific.

Second, what is your proposed solution? You suggest there is a problem without ever actually declaring a problem, and in turn you offer no solution. If you are doing more than offering an observation, then you need to... well... offer more.

This blurb, while interesting, means nothing without context. You state it like it ought to mean something more, and perhaps to you it does, but ALL THOUGHT is subjective, and what might seem elementary to you would be byzantine and obscure to us. In order to say something, you cannot merely suggest in its general direction... which is what I see you doing here.

D+
(You may choose to re-submit this at a later time)


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Paguro

Member

01-11-2011

w00t.


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dredzach

Senior Member

01-11-2011

This post is informative only. I am not trying to persuade, merely to inform and enlighten. In my opinion there is a problem with the level of flow in this game, but my intention is not to push my own subjective view on you.

My point is there is a concept called flow which describes the proper level of challenge for a player, which lies between anxiety and boredom. I believe Riot developers should educate themselves about this concept because they have stated they call challenge "a burden to the player" when in fact it is the source of enjoyment for the player.

Although this is just an introduction to the concept of flow, someone who has a real interest or perhaps a job where it matters (like a Riot developer) might want to read further. Also, this could be useful to many other people.

This is from a college textbook, but that hardly matters. I'm not here to impress anyone, merely to present a new idea that I never heard brought up this way on this forum.

Oh, another thought I had, if you want something to argue about, is that in a landslide league of legends game, no one has fun because the losers experience anxiety and the winners experience boredom. Neither experiences "flow".


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

01-11-2011

Nice thing about a pvp game is this tends to happen anyway with good skill selection.

We try to follow the super mario brothers pattern, which is escalating tension with breaks in between, to a finale. It works in drama too.

- Zileas


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Kvo

Senior Member

01-11-2011

Quote:
I believe Riot developers should educate themselves about this concept because they have stated they call challenge "a burden to the player" when in fact it is the source of enjoyment for the player.


Where do they say that challenges are burdening? link plz

Quote:
We try to follow the super mario brothers


THE SMOKING GUN MARIO CONSPIRACY THEORY? NOWAI


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dredzach

Senior Member

01-11-2011

Quote:
Kvo:
Where do they say that challenges are burdening? link plz

Indirectly, in the anti-fun pattern. It is stated as "burden of knowledge".


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TandemX

Senior Member

01-11-2011

Hmm, so when I start playing at 6pm and I glance at the clock it now reads midnight, I shouldn't say WTF, where'd my time go? cause I'm not concentrating hard enough because I don't know my skill.

I'm confused.


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dredzach

Senior Member

01-11-2011

Quote:
Zileas:
Nice thing about a pvp game is this tends to happen anyway with good skill selection.

We try to follow the super mario brothers pattern, which is escalating tension with breaks in between, to a finale. It works in drama too.

- Zileas


I appreciate the extremely difficult challenge of creating flow when a variety of skill levels are involved. If you hadn't known before that this was something scientifically studied, I hope you find it helpful in your work. There is much more information on the topic than what I posted. It may help to look at things in a different way.

For example, the landslide game thing. You speak about the escalating tension. This is very good, but sometimes a game becomes "decided" at an early stage and then it takes too long to conclude. The wait in between is not fun, and flow explains why.


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Seven of Swords

Senior Member

01-11-2011

Quote:
dredzach:
I appreciate the extremely difficult challenge of creating flow when a variety of skill levels are involved. If you hadn't known before that this was something scientifically studied, I hope you find it helpful in your work. There is much more information on the topic than what I posted. It may help to look at things in a different way.

For example, the landslide game thing. You speak about the escalating tension. This is very good, but sometimes a game becomes "decided" at an early stage and then it takes too long to conclude. The wait in between is not fun, and flow explains why.



This is the reason why players keep asking for surrenders to start at 12 minutes, because 12 minutes in is usually where a steamroll game will end.