Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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xXSorianXx

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Guinsoo I thought they killed you in Riot, you never post on GD anymore On a side note of the fact that I'm extremely happy that you're redoing fiora I'd like to ask.. What's Sion looking like right now? I'm not looking for an ETA mostly because I know I won't get one but how's he look and feel in your closed environment?


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Dies to Wolves

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Hey Guinsoo, I know it's still really early, but is it possible you could provide us some sort of estimative for when this rework is released? A couple of months? A lot of months? Still in this year? no idea?

Thanks


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BlackAndSilver

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
People don't like change. It's in our nature; if we like something we don't want it to change. But that doesn't mean it's not for the better. I'm confident we can deliver a new Fiora kit that delivers most of the same mechanics that the old one has (including the important ones like the Blade Waltz experience) but creates new gameplay and makes her actually feel like a duelist.

I prefer to focus my responses toward posts that are more constructive.
Okay fine I'll stop bothering. No matter what I, or any other Fiora mains say (along with the Kass, Grag, Skarn, Reng mains) will change your mind. You're gunna completely gut the champions when you want to and that's that.

There is NO successful outcome of this rework. You're either going to make her broken OP so that she's pick/banned every single game, or she's going to be worthless (Rengar).

Now all we learned from this is the pure fact that all you need to be is some punk ass scrub Bronze kid, post multiple threads daily on multiple accounts, and successfully get a champion gutted. Thanks.

I truly see no point at all in playing this game if I can't even get accustomed to a single champion. What's the point? They're most likely just gunna end up getting scrapped and changed into an entire different champ anyway.

Thank you for putting up with my rage and although I see you do understand where I'm coming from, maybe you could be a little more passionate for your players that main champions. No matter which champ it is. It really sucks to have your favorite champion become... Not your favorite champion anymore.

I really believe the ideas and creativity should be pushed forward for new champions, not for erasing existing ones.


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Xohs

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
Okay fine I'll stop bothering. No matter what I, or any other Fiora mains say (along with the Kass, Grag, Skarn, Reng mains) will change your mind. You're gunna completely gut the champions when you want to and that's that.
As a person who mained Gragas and greatly dislikes the new one. Chill out dude. Riot is pretty cool when it comes to meeting half-way with people, and if your sentiment about her rework is correct when the thing actually ships, and the community shares it, the chances of things being changed to accommodate you are greatly increased.

Guinsoo is a brilliant designer, he's part of the reason why League exists at all. If anyone can make Fiora feel good, it's this guy. And if gets it wrong he'll be sure to understand why and fix it to a point where it makes the designers AND the players happy. This rework is probably months away, if not in the range of next year. You'll have plenty of time to enjoy your version of the champ before she is changed, and if you don't like her after the change, I'm sure if you're civil and you have valid points, Riot WILL listen.


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Xohs

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
I really believe the ideas and creativity should be pushed forward for new champions, not for erasing existing ones.
Riot doesn't just do reworks randomly, there's a reason for each one. Usually unhealthy game-patterns which (if fixed correctly) upgrade the entire health of the game, let alone the champions.


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The Shaco Bot

Senior Member

04-06-2014

all hail Guinsoo?


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BlackAndSilver

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xohs View Post
As a person who mained Gragas and greatly dislikes the new one. Chill out dude. Riot is pretty cool when it comes to meeting half-way with people, and if your sentiment about her rework is correct when the thing actually ships, and the community shares it, the chances of things being changed to accommodate you are greatly increased.

Guinsoo is a brilliant designer, he's part of the reason why League exists at all. If anyone can make Fiora feel good, it's this guy. And if gets it wrong he'll be sure to understand why and fix it to a point where it makes the designers AND the players happy. This rework is probably months away, if not in the range of next year. You'll have plenty of time to enjoy your version of the champ before she is changed, and if you don't like her after the change, I'm sure if you're civil and you have valid points, Riot WILL listen.
As much as I'd love to believe everything you said, you know I can't. Seeing what they did to Grag, Kass, Skarner, Rengar... CLEARLY the outcomes of all those were definitely disliked by the majority, and I don't see any half-way being met. They just said DEAL with it, and all the mains cried until they quit or moved on to new champs.

And thanks but no thanks on playing her now. I honestly can't even touch Fiora now. I feel no point at ALL in playing my main knowing she's eventually going to be deleted. There's no point. Why give myself sentiment knowing she'll be scrapped anyway? "Oh play her as much as you can before she's gone" Nah, that seems like a complete waste of time to me.


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Xohs

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
As much as I'd love to believe everything you said, you know I can't. Seeing what they did to Grag, Kass, Skarner, Rengar... CLEARLY the outcomes of all those were definitely disliked by the majority, and I don't see any half-way being met. They just said DEAL with it, and all the mains cried until they quit or moved on to new champs.

And thanks but no thanks on playing her now. I honestly can't even touch Fiora now. I feel no point at ALL in playing my main knowing she's eventually going to be deleted. There's no point. Why give myself sentiment knowing she'll be scrapped anyway? "Oh play her as much as you can before she's gone" Nah, that seems like a complete waste of time to me.
Have you honestly played any of the champs? Let's be honest here, I play Gragas, Rengar, AND Skarner. GD completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) blows the reworks out of proportion.

The biggest problems is that most of the champions lose defining qualities that are bad for the game health (Skarner lost permaslow, people lost their ****. Rengar lost insane splitpushing power, and a very long stealth with low amounts of telegraph ability, people lost their ****. Gragas's power got shifted into a way where he isn't 14 miles away from you doing large amounts of damage, people lost their ****. Kassadin lost the ability to silence while choosing every single fight he wants to, people lost their ****), however, all of these guys still have their big things about them real.

Gragas is still that beefy guy who's tossing barrels and has the potential to displace your entire team. Skarner is still that skittering scorpion who can run up, grab one of your big targets, and still beat them with his amazing damage. Rengar is still that cat who comes out of nowhere and does crazy damage while having unique build options. Kassadin is still that anti-mage darting all over the place. These champions aren't ruined, at worse they're numerically weak, which is not an issue of mechanics but an issue of tuning.

Also, you don't see Riot meeting halfway? How about every single thread they made asking for feedback, shifting through the people overreacting, and still taking constructive criticism. They don't have to do that, they do it because the individual designers care about the champions they've reworked. I'm sad about Gragas, yeah. But Solcrushed has responded to me several times within his thread and hopefully some changes will be coming to make him smoother.

FINALLY, all of the designers you're seeing are pretty fresh in the grand scheme of Riot. Guinsoo is the MAN who started from the ground up. He helped make the very first MoBA (DoTA), and was probably the most influential person in the entire project. He was one of the few who deviated to START Riot. He's made champions in the original cast, such as Nunu, Karthus, and Alistar. This guy is why MoBAs are where they are.

And honestly, you're not gonna play her because she's gonna change some day? Really dude, that's weak. You're gonna die some day too, are you gonna not bother living? Because that's the same logic.


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tryinddng

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Give the re work to scruffy <3


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Southall

Junior Member

04-06-2014

@Guinsoo

Thanks for taking a look at Fiora! You said you didn't really have any thoughts on jungle Fiora at the moment, and I was wondering if I could help with that. I've been playing her semi-religiously in the jungle for the past few weeks, and while she's actually incredibly strong, she definitely offers very little in the way of skill expression the moment she's fed.

At the moment jungle Fiora is problematic for (imo) the following reasons:

  1. She has a lot of (probably) unintended mobility in the jungle. Coupled with the vision trinket, she can use Lunge (Q) to jump over walls to minions with her burst of speed to disengage from most invades she doesn't want to fight.
  2. This means jungle Fiora can choose her battles with relative impunity. She has a couple of power spikes in jungle that allow her to 100-0 nearly every jungler in the current meta. Jungle Fiora therefore goes out searching for 1v1s that are very difficult to escape - lane Fiora has this as well, but her roaming is constrained by having to protect her tower.
  3. When behind, her target-based mobility and high single target damage actually allows for easy counter-jungling.
  4. As a result, jungle Fiora as of right now spends most of her time counter-jungling, waiting for a favorable 1v1 to come her way. Her Q and E gives her in-jungle disengage comparable to a lot of top-tier junglers nowadays, and her ultimate can easily turn around fights where she is outnumbered. It is very difficult to punish an enemy Fiora when she wants to live in your jungle.

I think jungle Fiora's pattern of counter-jungling and actively searching for 1v1 duels in the enemy jungle fits her character well: what I think doesn't fit the theme of a consummate jungling duelist is the fact that she can run away using jungle creeps every time there's a battle she can't win :P

To reiterate: jungle Fiora has her merits - when she's fighting close duels and 1v2s in the enemy jungle, and the outcome is unclear, it's really exciting! But the fact that she can pick her fights means she's usually got a large advantage over the enemy whenever this happens, and 100-0ing some poor sap in his own jungle isn't that fun.

I hope that helped! Best of luck fixing her, she's a tricky one.