[TT][Guide]Autowin Treelines with Ryze Bot!

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LaughingWalrus

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Senior Member

01-08-2011

Intro
I derive a lot of enjoyment from playing not-quite-mainstream, highly successful heroes . Especially on treelines, which tends to be dominated largely by tanky dps like Mundo and Win Zhao, crushing them with something even more OP is exciting and fun. Note that although this is meant for treelines, I originally got the idea for the build from Hotshot on SR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWb7KvnJdpo
This build promises to make even perma-banned pantheon stand back in awe of its OPness: Ryze will outdamage Pantheon at every level until Pantheon gets significant amounts of attack damage. At level 4, Panth will combo you for 320 damage, but Ryze will for 400.1. At level 9, Panth will combo you for 756, but Ryze will do it better at 824...and then repeat the 824 again 3 seconds later (see Appendix 2).

Statistically speaking, slightly over 15 games, this has netted me 80% win ratio, even including the times I solo queued with feeders or with players who just didnt understand engaging 2v3 was autolose no matter how fed you were. Even in defeat games, you will still generally have a great kda ratio, and just have an all around good time.

The Philosophy (why ryze bot is autowin)
This build revolves around the fact that:
-Ryze has very low AP ratios and puts out stupid amounts of damage even without AP items
-Overload scales off of mana
-Ryze tends to die very easily if not built for survival
-His passive can allow nearly endless casting, but requires tons of mana to sustain prolonged fire
So what do we do? We get defensive items that give mana!

Summoner Spells/Mastery/Rune Setup
Ghost/Flash
9/0/21
Runes are loose, but I've been running mpen, flat armor, flat mr, and flat hp.

Item Build
Sapphire Crystal + 2 hp pots -> Boots -> Shroud -> build as needed (usually Banshee Veil, getting a neg cloak first), picking up boots 2 sometime when necessary (usually after shroud or neg cloak).

Ability Build
EWQ, then R>Q>W>E

Strategy
Harass with E, and if they get too frisky before 3, prison and walk up to them for E bounces + auto for about 200 damage (see appendix 2 for damage calculations). Around level 5, you become supremely arrogant because you can pretty much take any overzealous hero 1v1. As an estimate, I'd say you can take out about half a hero's hp with a full combo around 5, and if you can keep in range for more than 3 seconds, ding! Cooldowns are up and you trash the rest of their hp.

When fighting in an even situation, always cast Q ASAP, because at level 9, you will hit 39% cdr with shroud and 3.6 sec cd Q. Blowing the other spells pretty much instantly resets your Q again for another 350 damage nuke, and accordingly reduces the cooldown on the other spells as well. Thus, in team fights, you will be basically mashing your hand against the keyboard nonstop.
It is important to note though, that after two volleys, there will be few seconds period of vulnerability (not casting spells) and so if you are getting hammered on, YOU NEED TO FLASH/GHOST OUT ASAP. Your tank items are meant to keep you alive for more volleys, not to absorb infinite damage.

As end-game approaches though, and the enemy heroes finally get tanky enough/build MR, you will lose power quickly. There are very few solutions to this, besides abusing your early-mid dominance enough that you gain an advantage impossible to overcome. Void staff, deathcap, and hourglass all have only limited effect in my experience, because of Ryze's poor scaling and because of his tanky build meant to keep him alive. Nonetheless, you will still be able to kite your ground 1v1 vs most heroes, giving your allies time to arrive and punish that judgmentally impaired fellow.

Overall, Ryze is very easy to learn, because quite like Xin, he simply has to smash buttons and approaches a point where he pretty much has 0 cd and can keep you cc'd an absurdly large percentage of time. GL and I'll try to eventually figure out livestream/fraps to post up a video.

Appendix 1: Endless Casting
Example of endless casting (assuming .3 sec to get into position and cast each spell):

Code:
            CD(q)     CD(w)     CD(e)     CD(r)     Actual time
Q         3.6          0            0             0           0
E          2.3          0            5.4          0           .3
W         1             8.4         4.1          0           .6
R          0            7.1         2.8          30          .9
Q         3.6          5.8         1.5          28.7      1.2
Wait    2.1          4.3         0             27.2      2.7
E        .8             3             5.4        25.9         3
Wait    0             2.2          4.8         25.1        3.8
Q       3.6           .9           3.5         23.8         4.1
Wait    2.7          0             2.6        22.9         5
W       1.4            8.4         1.3        21.3         5.3
Wait   0             7             0           19.9          6.7
Q       3.6          5.7          0            18.6         7
E       2.3          4.4           5.4         17.3          7.3
So, in a basic 1.2 sec combo, you can get off 2 Qs, which is itself about 720 damage. Of course, you're not always going to be able to carry all of this off precisely; sometimes, you need to W a melee enemy ASAP and sometimes you might decide its better to hit R ASAP. In addition, you generally wont be standing around while "waiting", you will either be running along them or fleeing but keeping them in range.
However, as you can see, over the course of a teamfight, you can pull off 3 AoE Qs, causing some terrible, terrible damage. You will notice afterwards, you are vulnerable for 2.3 seconds as spells recharge, and since you have likely burned both ghost and flash now, you need to run until you pull off another QEWQ for a finishing 800+ damage. Keep in mind this is all possible at level 9 with shroud.

Appendix 2: Damage Calculations
How much damage can a ryze cause you ask? In one combo, 700 damage at level 6! All calculations made assuming you land maximum number of flux bounces and AoEs on the target.
Code:
Ryze             Assuming MR of 32 and 10 MPen from runes (9 reds, 1 quint)             
Level        Damage             OL@2             Mana                               
1             184.65                                      505                             
2             257.38             281.01             560                               
3             358.74                                    615
4             400.1                                      670                               
5             441.47                                    725                               
6             690.72                                     780                               
7             732.09                                     835                 
8             782.54                                    890           
9             823.91                                     945            
10             874.36                                 1000                               
11             947.82                                 1055
Compare this to pantheon numbers (note: this is ignoring Pantheon ult damage. but then again, you're not allowed to channel for 6 seconds in a skirmish).
Code:
Pantheon
                                                  Farmed Damage                              
HSS Level 1                                163.4                               
Stun + HSS1                              218.8                               
Stun + HSS2                             277.75                               
Full Combo (FC)                           320.3
FC HSS3                                   425.2                               
[Level 6]
FC HSS4                                   629.05                              
FC HSS4 SS2                            669.04
FC HSS5 SS2                            755.75
Yea. Ryze is OP.

Couple of notes in response to concerned players like Reden though:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
While I agree he can out-damage Pantheon, that's assuming all your flux bounces hit the target, which often isn't the case. I notice sometimes it just kind of... fizzles out for no reason at all, and I only get 3 or four bounces as opposed to the 5 max. A well placed HSS on the other hand can and will hit multiple champions in the cone without relying on chance.

Also, his snare doesn't stun, so you're still able to be attacked by ranged champions and have abilities used on you while the target is trapped... just most people I encounter decide to click frantically to get away from me once snared instead of actually fighting back
Correct, relying on all fluxes to hit is indeed a big assumption. Actual numbers are off by 127 (before 6 and assuming the target is not hit by at least ONE more bounce, in which case take only 64 damage off), and afterwards about 319 damage from my calculated numbers. Bear in mind though my numbers do not take into account the nearly-autorefreshed Q, which more or less makes up for the loss in damage.

Relevant insights hardercore(?) players will appreciate from gameplay experience:
Laning:
Ryze is very very strong at outlaning most melee heroes. Because they have to get close to hit you, 3 flux hits are nearly guaranteed if they get frisky and once they hit you, they will attract creep aggro. This means Ryze can counter popular heroes like Mundo, Tryndamere (Ryze is especially good at this, outlaned tryns 4 out of 4 times completely denying them cs and later on experience).
However, be more cautious vs a ranged, because your full burst is not guaranteed nor do you have creep aggro advantage should they retaliate. Use your judgment, but in this situation, outlaning them should be less of a concern than simply farming up your items. This is also the case when you are vs a smart melee hero player who abuses bushes at top initial creep clash area. It's quite problematic because flux will not bounce to hidden targets; will experiment soon to see if bush ward is actually worth it.

Ranked viability:
In ranked, Ryze is still very strong, but takes some, albeit minimal, time to build up before you can full-out roll heroes. Getting the glacial shroud asap is crucial, but vs the magic damage good TT players will pick [kennen, udyr tiger dot, nunu ice blast], securing a neg cloak is also highly critical for survival. This 740g extra requirement is a heavy demand on TT for someone who already has a 2k "i need this to completely crush enemies build" (shroud + boots + 2 pots). In addition, this Ryze is countered very hard by stun/silence (abundant on good ranked teams - usually via kennen, sion, and more often now jax), because his 0 cooldown goes to waste.
Conclusion: Ryze still very strong, but heroes like mundo, nunu, sion, singed, kennen still hold higher pick priority atm, because they are strong and picked quick while ryze can be last-picked np.


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crimsonlyre

Senior Member

01-08-2011

He's by far the burstiest champion in the game, and doesn't require ap to do so. Whenever I try non-ap builds like this people laugh... and Elementz and the rest of the crazies shun him but I've been playing him since his remake and there is no other champ I find to hold a candle to him.


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Loreington

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Member

01-08-2011

yeah ryze is pretty underrated because people do not abuse the fact that he isn't ap dependent and that he is more about getting in the opponents face and unleashing his full combo and surviving long enough to be burst again


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Kamaro

Senior Member

01-08-2011

I saw a ryze jungle vid by stonewall008 and it actually works pretty well. He has a decent speed and stays high health. You can build him into tanky with health/armor/mana (stuff like RoA/Banshee's and Frzn Heart and melt face from the jungle.


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Zoobi

Senior Member

01-08-2011

I am Professor Ryze Bot and I approve of this message.


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TakinTheHeat

Senior Member

01-08-2011

DEAR GOD MAN, What have you DONE. Check my last few games on treeline, playing another now will try to make a video.


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Yagharek

Junior Member

01-08-2011

This is pretty much the build I use in 5s, as well. Ryze without BV is pretty much useless, he's too easily ganked, and there is no point building AP until mid-late, and even then CDR is equally/more valuable.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-08-2011

I started playing Ryze not too long ago, and this is the only type of build I supported. The only difference is I rush an RoA - do you feel it's necessary? Should I skip it and just go straight for Catalyst -> Shroud -> Banshee's?

I only play SR, and I typically go Catalyst -> RoA -> Boots -> Catalyst -> Shroud -> Banshee's - but I definitely see the weakness therein.

Just played a game where I was at 1/3 HP, kiting a Blitzcrank from full HP to 0 because of endless spell casting. Ult, spam, snare, run... spam, snare, run.... spam, snare, run... ult, spam, snare, dead.


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Doriantv

Member

01-08-2011

IMO, don't play Ryze on TT, since it is a tanky metagame, and you will soon run up against the dreaded tank teams with Nunu, Singed, and whatever. Casters don't do well against tanks, so you won't have a very good time.

On SR, good Ryze players build Low AP builds. In my last (successful) Ryze match, I had an RoA, Banshee's, and Soul Shroud. If I want more offensive potential, I would build Spell Pen and CDR, since those scale off your total base damage, not off designated AP ratios.


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TakinTheHeat

Senior Member

01-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketball View Post
IMO, don't play Ryze on TT, since it is a tanky metagame, and you will soon run up against the dreaded tank teams with Nunu, Singed, and whatever. Casters don't do well against tanks, so you won't have a very good time.

On SR, good Ryze players build Low AP builds. In my last (successful) Ryze match, I had an RoA, Banshee's, and Soul Shroud. If I want more offensive potential, I would build Spell Pen and CDR, since those scale off your total base damage, not off designated AP ratios.
I ran into Nunu, Rammus, and Zilean and won with OPs build, it was actually the last game I played.

My team was Vlad, Trynd, and me. I did OP build then got a Void Staff>Abyssal Scepter>Archangels and we won the last team fight at 49 minutes and won.

I recommend swapping out the seals for dodge though, in the two games I've played so far with this build I've not died twice just because of 9 dodge seals. Once in each game.

I believe not maxing out CDR immediately on Ryze is a mistake because of his passive. 40% cdr is probably equivalent to 70% cdr because of it.


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