[Discussion] Udyr, Damage or Speed?

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kijik

Senior Member

01-06-2010

First, the constant factors, pretty accepted that 5 points in turtle and bear is nigh mandatory.

Now the question at hand stands to be which build is superior damage wise, attack speed with maxing phoenix, or attack damage with maxing tiger, and don't try to tell me that you want to max attack speed with tiger or max attack damage with phoenix, it contradicts their purposes as damage dealing.

Lately I've been going bloodrazor rush with berserker greaves and a malady after bloodrazor(vamp scepter first item) and it's incredibly effective, but I have to wonder if a stance dance in and out of tiger every chance you get to get the burst DoT might possibly be more effective with stacked damage.

Theorycraft/Share experiences/Discuss!


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Engarde

Adjudicator

01-06-2010

I am slightly in favor of Phoenix, seems to just be a bit more effective. On that note, if you have less DPS'ers on your team, you might want a wits end over malady. Wits end is an extra 42 pure damage a hit on targets with mana. Malady has lifesteal, though that isnt to effective, as with attack speed, alot of your damage will come from procs, which you cannot lifesteal from, but on the other hand, you whole team can benefit from the malady effect.
Just some food for thought.


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BraveSirWilliam

Junior Member

01-06-2010

Trinity Force with Tiger is what I've found most effective.

Every 3 secs you get the Trinity proc, and every 6 secs, you get Tiger proc + Trinity Proc. Plus you get Movement Speed and the slow proc, plus a ton of other nice stats.

I go Madred's Razor -> Berserker's -> Vampiric Scepter -> Trinity Force


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The Swedish Chef

Senior Member

01-06-2010

I personally find that Stark's works much better than Malady on the whole, and is far better in teamfights. My usual build with Udyr is Razor > Zerker Boots > Stark's > Bloodrazor > Mallet


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

I've tryd attack speed, ap, and ad and this is what ive come up with so far.
AP deals up to 300+ aoe damage over 5 seconds with enough ap everytime you switch stances and gives over 500shield absorbion.
Attack speed offers 20% lifesteal from turtle, so you can basicly constantly stun/shield and regain HP, this method is very effective and even has let me solo a yi with both of us equal, both level 18, full on items. The problem with attack speed though, is that it hasn't done much help late game, attack speed doesn't pose a whole lot of damage, and armor/magic pen on attack speed is useless.
AD has to be the best effective way to do udyr, and i've even thought of making a guide based on it.
In my experience, Late game tiger stance combined with 3 blood thirsters, 1 infinity edge and guardian angel has allowed me not only to tank anything, but also finish off a twitch at half hp with one tiger x3damage attack.
he died 5feet from shop as he said.
Not to mention you get 75%lifesteal and tons of attack speed from the bts+tigerstance.


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kijik

Senior Member

01-07-2010

interesting ideas there toggle, I was thinking the same thing to an extent basically a cracked out katarina build, my only issue withstanding is keeping mana up, but golem says haithur and brave I go for triforce after malady, I'm just talking about what I usually end games with, bloodrazor makes udyr a complete monster with my build.

The whole wits end over malady is a decent idea, and I'd get starks instead of malady, or executioner's if I pick up wits.

Reason I don't usually get starks myself is that I often run with Sivir's at my Elo level, and if a sivir doesn't get starks, frankly, he/she's an idiot.

let's keep this discussion rolling, made this so I could get a wide variety of ideas


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radica

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Scepter>Zerker Boots>Malady>Trinity Force=game is over but if>Think Smart

If your using Tiger by the time you get Zeal from Trinity Force your attack speed becomes maxed so you don't want to invest in anymore attack speed.

Generally, after Trinity I would get Black Cleaver if no one on the other team had any armor at all then I might do Infinity Edge. Or if the game was gonna be over soon and I didn't have a large amount of money I would invest in a Brutalizer. If the game still continues to drag on grab an Infinity Edge or Last Whisper.

For skills don't always grab Turtle. Yes, it is good early game and to recoup mana but mid/late game it becomes too defensive for a carry/support. Grab Turtle if your gonna feel overwhelmed by harassment. Prioritize Phoenix as it does the most amount of early damage, at lvl 9 it provides the equivalent of a maxed Jax Ult and helps you farm so much so so so much. By 3-5 you can take the lizard and then go kill dragon. Make sure to grab at least one rank of Bear early game to stun at lvl 2. Then prioritize Phoenix then your skill of choice either Turtle or Tiger after the one rank of Bear. Then max Bear of course.

Tiger maxed and 2 stacks of Monkey grants you attack speed equivalent to a Yi Ult. It's great for taking down towers or dragons and gives you some burst at least.

Also, Udyr's biggest enemy is any form of disable even light disables like slows. Most carries could bypass this with a defensive ability like Scurvy, Spell Shield, Highlander etc so never go initiate unless it a solo or 2 of them.


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Wolfy2032

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Im sorry but your thinking way too late of the game if you have 3 blood thirsters. People always talk about games that they have been fed and they have farmed for like 30 + min lets be honest in a serious game that just wont fly. Tiger just is not efficient majority of the game to be viable imo. If your being fed and your making VERY good money sure tiger can out shine others but thats very very rare. Pheonix is much more reliable damage and will allow you to shut down the team early / mid game which in LoL is the 2 most important parts of the game. If you shut them down early / mid game there will be NO late game bottom line. This is why most of the top players focus on early stat items etc because the game is fast paced and less passive.

Imo the best is working on pheonix / bear / optional Turtle (if having a hard time in lane) and getting out to gank as soon as you hit 7 or 8. By this time its not hard to have a malady and berzerker treads and at so early of a game i doubt any hero can withstand the burst of pheonix and stuns of bear so early you can easily stop solo lane from leveling even feeding off that hero or if top is having problems go help em out you have so much damage by this time even tanks dont want you to be hitting them. Early kills = Early gold and Early Levels which in turn = map control and forcing your opponent into a less than desired position of defense and being starved of gold scared to go out to creep.

Anyone describing their amazing late game how they had 3 blood thirsters just is not practical sorry it doesnt happen every game what does happen every game is that by lvl 7 i will be killing things in 5 seconds thanks to 200 proc damage every 3 hits.

So to answer your question heres the 3 layers of the game for udyr in viability.

Layer 1: Laning Phase / REALLY early game
AP / Attack Speed will net you the most damage

Layer 2: Early Game possibly still in lane but ganks are begining
Attack speed / Ap still win

Layer 3: Mid game Everyone should either be ganking pushing or farming
Attack Speed 100%

Layer 4: Late Game (rarely happens if played right)
Attack Damage (if fed with tiger stance) Attack Speed (if not farmed as well or using pheonix)


Main reason is ap scales bad with udyr but early game every point helps.


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Coyotegrey

Junior Member

01-07-2010

All this talk of Phoenix stance makes me want to at least try it, but I'm absolutely dominating (most of the time) with Tiger stance - emphasizing attack power, crit chance, and movement speed. Cooldown runes help me maximize stance dance to keep the stacks high.

No other melee character can beat me in a 1v1 match. And in groups, I don't initiate but come in swiftly and bring a lot of stuns and damage.

Edit: Oh, and also.... Yi's a little *****. Even with his ultimate. Falls down so easily.


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Brontobeuf

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Wait for the patch. Udyr is revamped.


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