How to build Garen now?

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gunther2291

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quizard Raderack View Post
So in the 3 months i was away from lol,they nerfed garen to ground?
Or he was nerfed way below ground level..i mean he is now nothing(like heirm)?
In 3x3 he can be played with some sucess? In witch role? ad or tank?
no they nerfed sunfires, which indirectly nerfed garen to the ground. the other nerfs are just details. they tried to rectify it a little this patch but it didnt work. he now has no late game (not much of a change) and a meh early game


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Tokinatoor

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Seriously just because Garen got nerfed does not mean he's useless.

Spin-to-win still works like a charm.... just now you must use your combo of Q->E->Ignite->R and you still got a kill if the enemy was at 50% health to start.

Garen's nerf didnt change the way i built him.
Sunfire->boots->FoN/Warmogs/Thornmail/aRanduins->1 more defensive->IE->Ghostblade

I miss stacking sunfires though.


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1 800 SOLO QUEUE

Senior Member

01-08-2011

I've been going Warmog's -> Boots (usually swiftness or merc) -> Sunfire -> Atmas ->IE -> ghostblade

It's been doing pretty decent for me but I'm in the same boat as you. I only recently started playing Garen regularly.


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Jacen Bourne

Junior Member

01-08-2011

It depends on who you're facing. Normally a well-balanced team will have a carry and a mage, if so, I do this, the order doesn't necessarily matter.

Garen Build:

Force of Nature
Thornmail
Warmog's
Sunfire
Boots (Swiftness/Merc)
Infinity Edge

That's my usual build. I call it "Invinci-Garen," because he's extremely hard to kill. Now, in most games, if I get fed enough to get there, the game's over before I get the Infinity Edge. With Garen, the key thing is, all you have to do is last long enough for their health to be low enough to ult-kill them. Hence the defensive build.

Runes, I normally do dodge (helps), health-regen and health.

I've also seen builds with 2 Warmogs, 2 Sunfires, boots and an Infinity, which works as well. My build gives me an edge. For example, I just finished a game (victory) where there were no physical damage units, so I didn't build the Thornmail because they all did magic damage, mostly. Play it by ear.

Just my thoughts!


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GrimJaww

Senior Member

01-10-2011

why does everyone keep getting Infinity edge on garen when last whisper is far better suited for him. (especially if your specing tank.)

ill try to do some math but its 7 am so if i screw up go easy on me

garens base dmg at 18 is 111

so with IE you will have 186 dmg with a 20% chance to crit for 150%

using judgment you will do 220 + 75 +20% chance to crit for 150%

to make the crit percent more comparable to flat dmg lets say you have an average chance of dealing 279 dmg and 220 + 112.5 with judgement (this is done by adding 20% of the damage that would be done if you were critting 100% of the time). with judgement you arnt getting much from your crits due to the fact that it will only crit on the bonus dmg.

With last whisper you get 151 dmg with 40% armor pen

Using judgement you will do 220 + 40 with 40% armor pen

Atm IE is winning by 128 dmg and 72.5 with judgement. Sounds good!

now lets calculate the armor pen. since im claiming LW is better lets give IE the advantage first by going with a squishy hero like ryze. even without any items that would add armor ryze will have 81 armor thats about 44% reduction.

With IE you will now deal 156.2 dmg and 186.2 with judgment

With LW you reduce the armor by 40% which gives you 48.6 armor (32%) so you will do 102.68 and 176.8 with judgment

once again IE wins by 54 dmg and 10 with judgement but remember that IE costs TWICE AS MUCH. that means your paying 2000 gold for 54 extra auto attack dmg and ONLY 10 with judgement. and this is on a squishy hero with NO ARMOR ITEMS!

considering the new zhonyas hourglass i think youll be hard pressed to find any hero without at least 1 armor item so saying that most heros will have anywhere between 130 armor - 200 armor wouldnt be a stretch and i dont need to do the math to know that LW would definantly overtake IE in that respect.

now you could also point out that the more dmg items you build on garen (yuumoo, atma, spelldrinker) the more effective your IE will be so if your going for an all out dps build then yea DEFINANTLY get IE but why not get LW too? but if your going tank and are only going to get 1 dmg item plus maybe an atmas (personally i think your should always get atmas) LW is by far the better choice as it hits harder on more armored opponents and costs 2000 gold less.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-10-2011

It's bothersome how many people are taken aback that a champion that was never a tank, could build tank and destroy teams.

Now he actually needs damage items to deal damage, like every other champion in the game, and this is a problem...

Garen was, and never will be a tank. Ever. When I see a Garen on my team that builds tank, I think, "Fantastic, it's now 4v5." He can't initiate unless the enemy happens to wander in to a bush, he can't save a teammate effectively (melee silence notwithstanding). Garen was, and always will be, Tanky DPS. Build him tough enough to get to the squishy, and with enough damage to shut that squishy down. Building full tank just nets you 'ignore' status, unless of course the enemy team has no idea how to focus priority targets, and just attacks the first thing they see.. well then Veigar can build tank and do well.

And unless I'm mistaken Judgment scales with 1:1 with your bonus attack damage - why are you not building AD on him? How is that poor scaling? Get some Armor Penetration.


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GrimJaww

Senior Member

01-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post

And unless I'm mistaken Judgment scales with 1:1 with your bonus attack damage - why are you not building AD on him? How is that poor scaling? Get some Armor Penetration.
its poor scaling simply because there arnt enough pure dmg items out there. as i pointed out crit isnt as effective on judgement so your getting less out of an IE then other melee dps would. also there are no procs other then crit that work on judgement so you can exclude bloodthirster and cleaver (unless u actually auto attack with garen and if thats the case you should be playing another hero) he has no mana so u cant use manamune and he has no ap scaling so forget gunblade. for a hero thats sposed to be a dps there really isnt a whole lot of dps items that he can use effectively.

with that said i do agree that garen should never go full tank i always get a least 2 dps items (last whisper and brutilizer) but due to that fact that garen is quite slow and only has a 2 second speed boost to close the gap on enemies (just about every other meele dps has a stun/slow/flash/jump that can get them there) he really needs to be beefy which is why i always recommend the atmas/warmogs build and a force of nature never hurts.


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Trillo

Senior Member

01-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJaww View Post
its poor scaling simply because there arnt enough pure dmg items out there. as i pointed out crit isnt as effective on judgement so your getting less out of an IE then other melee dps would. also there are no procs other then crit that work on judgement so you can exclude bloodthirster and cleaver (unless u actually auto attack with garen and if thats the case you should be playing another hero) he has no mana so u cant use manamune and he has no ap scaling so forget gunblade. for a hero thats sposed to be a dps there really isnt a whole lot of dps items that he can use effectively.

with that said i do agree that garen should never go full tank i always get a least 2 dps items (last whisper and brutilizer) but due to that fact that garen is quite slow and only has a 2 second speed boost to close the gap on enemies (just about every other meele dps has a stun/slow/flash/jump that can get them there) he really needs to be beefy which is why i always recommend the atmas/warmogs build and a force of nature never hurts.
Considering that he really needs the bonus AD to be considered a threat, a bloodthirster is not such a horrible idea. He can farm the bonus AD up fast by taking a few minion waves out. I have been trying to find a build that incorporates max CDR with bonus damage. I want to be able to silence and stick to a target until its dead. Even with max CDR, he will have to auto attack a few swings, so thirster might help keep you alive.

Might have to play around a bit with CDR blues/quints, ghostblade, spirit visage, or maybe those new CDR boots?


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJaww View Post
its poor scaling simply because there arnt enough pure dmg items out there. as i pointed out crit isnt as effective on judgement so your getting less out of an IE then other melee dps would. also there are no procs other then crit that work on judgement so you can exclude bloodthirster and cleaver (unless u actually auto attack with garen and if thats the case you should be playing another hero) he has no mana so u cant use manamune and he has no ap scaling so forget gunblade. for a hero thats sposed to be a dps there really isnt a whole lot of dps items that he can use effectively.
Why do you feel that you absolutely must complete items? I agree that IE, BT, etc PASSIVES might see better use on other auto-attackers.

However, what about armor penetration, CDR? Brutalizer + Ghostblade for AD, Armpen, and CDR. Or, new Last Whisper, for damage, armor penetration, then stack BF Swords until you're FORCED to complete them (ie. you ran out of inventory). Survivability (no more than two) can include Randuin's Omen, Sunfire Cape, Frozen Mallet, Spirit Visage, FoN (but don't rush it...), Quicksilver Sash. You still have a movement speed buff + Silence + nuke, an AoE damage CC reducer, and a % damage reduction shield. He has enough tools to get a target within range of killing with his ultimate.

IDK, I think far too many are caught up on the concept that Garen is a tank... and they need to let that go and build him how he was intended.


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