rylais on karthus

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GENERAL NUTBAKED

Senior Member

01-05-2010

does rylai's scepter work with defile? if so, it would be redic awesome on karthus...


was playing earlier tonight and a friend brought this up, i had never even thought of it


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Talasia

Member

01-05-2010

Yes it does, it works on his ulti as well.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-05-2010

It works, but as you might expect. It triggers when you activate the spell, so anything in the aura is slowed - but that's it. If something moves in after you trigger the aura, they aren't slowed, and the slow does not renew; you just get the 2s 15% slow, then they're back to normal. You could keep them slowed by spamming activate/deactivate, but it'd be much simpler to spam Lay Waste, which is an excellent slow - 1s base CD, low mana cost AoE slow with more range than almost any other ability. Your only issue is the half second delay. Bargain.

For the record, I haven't seen Requiem proc a slow, even when firing it off at opponents on the same screen. I may simply be mistaken, however, as it seems like it should work. Maybe I've just been watching when I start channelling instead of when the spell fires, which would probably make more sense.

I'm a great fan of Rylai's on Karthus. The lethality of Defile means he has to be in the middle of the action a lot more than most casters, and the extra health, AP and slow are all joyous.


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SumTinWong

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basilisk9466 View Post
For the record, I haven't seen Requiem proc a slow, even when firing it off at opponents on the same screen. I may simply be mistaken, however, as it seems like it should work. Maybe I've just been watching when I start channelling instead of when the spell fires, which would probably make more sense.
requiem definitely procs rylais
this happens when the dmg comes, not when you activate the skill

but rylais is for lay waste and not for requiem anyways :3


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MBirk

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTinWong View Post
requiem definitely procs rylais
this happens when the dmg comes, not when you activate the skill

but rylais is for lay waste and not for requiem anyways :3
Nasty with Req.

But I've been planning its use with req as an initiator in team fights.
Most people use req to clean up runners, but consider a team fight were the other team is nailed by a 2s slow, and 900 damage right as you engage. Add in sivirs on the hunt, and it should be shooting fish in a barrel.


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Gaeb

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Senior Member

01-05-2010

It works, I like it quite a lot. Usually built it after my abyscep_or_voidstick if I don't need further MR pen.


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MBirk

Senior Member

01-05-2010

I don't think void is a good idea on karthus, btw.

Wall giving -45 mr. Abyssal -20 if you got that, and maybe sorc boots -20.

-85 mr, Few will have more then that in the first place. And if they do, they would have what, 20-40 maybe? Reducing that 20-40 by 40% (as its applied after flat -mr.), seems like a waste, you would be better of with just +ap or other options.


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Gaeb

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Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
I don't think void is a good idea on karthus, btw.
I adapt my build to my opponents MR and the situation, ergo the word _or_. For instance... in a low MR game, I buy abyssal and never get a void. In a high MR game, I get a void first, then decide whether I'll be close enough and/or want the MR to use Abyssal. If I'm facing a skilled team of ranged squishies (ie twitch ashe tristana) with medium MR (~50-100) then I'll forgo an Abyssal and instead grab more pen (guise) and more AP (brilliance pots first as they're cheap to farm), knowing that I will rarely get them caught in my long CD-wall and wanting my ult, LW & deso to do significant portions of their health.

Quote:
Wall giving -45 mr. Abyssal -20 if you got that, and maybe sorc boots -20.
Wall gives -35 MR @R5, Abyssal gives -20, and spec'd exhaust gives -25.
Void staff gives 40% pen, talent gives +15% pen (combined 55% pen)
Sorc Boots gives 20 pen, Guise gives 20 Pen, and Marks give up to 8.5Pen

You'll note the list is in order of application by the game engine.

Quote:
-85 mr, Few will have more then that in the first place. And if they do, they would have what, 20-40 maybe? Reducing that 20-40 by 40% (as its applied after flat -mr.), seems like a waste, you would be better of with just +ap or other options.
Assuming you hit with your wall against a good team of ranged folks is a big assumption. Wall has HUGE range, and I use it a lot, but it has limited duration and long cooldown as well. Assuming people are close enough to use Abyssal or Exhaust is another big assumption. I like doing 700ish damage to the entire opposing team from my base - where Abyssal, Wall and Exhaust are all useless aside from Abyssal's AP. I had a game where I went 16-2-10 and for the majority of the team fights I was on the other side of the screen pushing a lane, but still racking up kills and assists.




Anyhoo. I said abys_or_void for a reason. One of the two is usually my 2nd or 3rd item after a catalyst and boots. Which one depends on the opposing team makeup, my team makeup, the opponents item builds, and the skill levels involved in the game.


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MBirk

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Are you sure sorc/guise and runes come after %? why would they do that?

Void would presumably be better for requiem, as you are right the direct effects of wall/abyssal require being close. Seems awfully situational to me however, I would think being much stronger in direct combat would be far more useful then periodic harrassing, pretty much all the time. and banshees veil goes a long way into neutralizing that. I'm arguing that void would be so situational, that its a bad choice 9 out of 10 times.
Dropping walls directly on top of people isn't that hard.
One of your core abilities lowers MR. and that ability does not stack well with % reductions, while does with flat reductions. It would be like stacking ias on trist, when its a far better choice to stack crit and damage, as one of her core abilities gives her ias.


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Gaeb

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Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Are you sure sorc/guise and runes come after %? why would they do that?
There's a few mechanics threads out there.

Quote:
Void would presumably be better for requiem, as you are right the direct effects of wall/abyssal require being close. Seems awfully situational to me however, I would think being much stronger in direct combat would be far more useful then periodic harrassing, pretty much all the time. and banshees veil goes a long way into neutralizing that. I'm arguing that void would be so situational, that its a bad choice 9 out of 10 times.
Void is superior to sorc shoes for raw MR pen any time their MR is above 50. If you have the talent, any time their MR is above 44. If I have basic shoes, and they've already got a negatron cloak or a chalice or a merc treads, I'm strongly considering working toward a void stick before upgrading my shoes.

In lower ELO games, people don't build MR -- half of them don't understand its value, and some choose to ignore MR to get more damage. In higher ELO games, people often will get merc treads (+30) for shoes for the variety of bonuses it gives, and that's just as a starter item.

Quote:
One of your core abilities lowers MR. and that ability does not stack well with % reductions, while does with flat reductions. It would be like stacking ias on trist, when its a far better choice to stack crit and damage, as one of her core abilities gives her ias.
200 MR opponent

Wall takes it to 165
Voidstaff+Masterytalent %pen takes 165 to 74
Sorc Shoes + Marks (8.5) take 74 to 46
Without wall, MR taken to only 62.
31.5% red vs. 38.2% ... 800 damage ult goes from 548 to 494 (+50dmg) and that's an extreme example, I don't see 200 MR people very often.


Or another way to put it;
With 28 MR Pen, and void+mastery, anyone with MR 62 or below is MR 0.
With wall on top of that, anyone with MR 97 or below is MR 0.
Wall stacks fine with pen.


As far as the situational/nonsituational goes... the entire game is situational I don't buy see invis wards unless I need them, I don't buy armor unless I'm facing a lot of high damage physical dps, I don't buy MR unless I'm facing a lot of magic damage, I don't buy pen unless I'm seeing a lot of high MR... etc On carries I don't buy an exe calling unless I see an opponent with lifesteal or a healer, etc etc etc


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