[Suggestion] Stealth Balance

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raxx

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Member

01-04-2010

I think the Stealth skill as taken directly from Warcraft III is a dated rendition with stale mechanics that should be redone.

After 100 or so games I'm far from an expert but I have at least learned how to contend with stealth. No, this post isn't because I got slaughtered by some Twitch or Eve or something, it's only because I just find Stealth to not be very fun in general.

Using stealth, it's great fun to kill someone... but it's always fun to kill people so it's hard to tell whether the stealth really adds to this or not. Where I'm really coming from is the receiving end of stealthers.

Any time there is Stealth on the other team, assuming you know what to do to keep it from owning you there is just one change in normal gameplay - you're going to have a lot less money than you normally do.

How is this any different from having to buy a Banshee's Veil to slow down a Veigar, Ryze or Blitzcrank? Because it isn't necessary to waste a bunch of money at the start of the game. You get the item later after you have made a lot of progression on your build. Also, a Veil only nerfs some of their damage and abilities and can be countered further, while wards and Oracle completely disable stealthers.


TL;DR VERSION:
- Stealth detection items are required early enough in the game that they disrupt the flow of game and make it slower and less fun in general.
- Wards and Oracle are effective but are too hard of a counter, completely shutting down stealth characters at a high cost.
- Stealth detection is relatively difficult to re-counter.
- Please rework stealth so that it adds to the game rather than slowing it down.


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Sinistral

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Buying stealth detection also SEVERELY messes up the progress of that hero, and has a negative impact on team battles for the other team in general. Wards in general do this, so as a bonus, you undermine a hero.


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Sweaty Gopher

Senior Member

01-05-2010

buying stealth detection is useless. Any smart stealther just won't go anywhere near that area where the ward is, or won't go near that hero.

It paints a target on the guy with oracle saying "come eat me!"

It's a death penalty with no real impact on the game, as any real stealth hero takes flash with them to counter it (to close distance into vision and kill someone asap).

As sinistral points out, it severely messes up the gradual growth of a hero, as that 400 bucks or 150 bucks early on is crucial to development of your character .


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wolfpaq

Member

01-05-2010

um... a stealth ward costs 150g. What phenomenal, game altering item are you buying at level 4 that only costs 150g? Hyperbole much?

Oh no at level 8 you may have to spend 150g more to continue to hard counter a stealth class.

God if I could pay 300g over the course of the first 12 levels to hard counter the hero in my lane, I'd do it in a second, and I wouldn't whine on the forum about how it "SEVERELY GIMPED MY BUILD WAAAA".

If anyone has a right to complain it's the stealth classes who are completely screwed by a 150g purchase (really just shaco and evelynn have the right to complain).


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mrtspence

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpaq View Post
um... a stealth ward costs 150g. What phenomenal, game altering item are you buying at level 4 that only costs 150g? Hyperbole much?

Oh no at level 8 you may have to spend 150g more to continue to hard counter a stealth class.

God if I could pay 300g over the course of the first 12 levels to hard counter the hero in my lane, I'd do it in a second, and I wouldn't whine on the forum about how it "SEVERELY GIMPED MY BUILD WAAAA".

If anyone has a right to complain it's the stealth classes who are completely screwed by a 150g purchase (really just shaco and evelynn have the right to complain).
1 ward isn't gonna provide remote protection from a good stealther. Instead you need everyone to get them (otherwise a gank will occur in the lane without pretty easily--at least in Twitch's case). So, really it costs 5x150x(1-3) which is a significant amount of gold.

A good twitch has range on the wards, and will just get an Oracle's and clear them out as he goes.

I do agree with saying that they can be a strong counter to Evelyn though--she does need to get close (whereas the Rat doesn't at all, and Shaco really doesn't need stealth much to do what he needs to).


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wolfpaq

Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtspence View Post
1 ward isn't gonna provide remote protection from a good stealther. Instead you need everyone to get them (otherwise a gank will occur in the lane without pretty easily--at least in Twitch's case). So, really it costs 5x150x(1-3) which is a significant amount of gold.

A good twitch has range on the wards, and will just get an Oracle's and clear them out as he goes.

I do agree with saying that they can be a strong counter to Evelyn though--she does need to get close (whereas the Rat doesn't at all, and Shaco really doesn't need stealth much to do what he needs to).
1) I agree that wards don't really effect twitch that much, same goes for teemo.
2) I agree that Shaco doesn't really need stealth to do his thing, although being able to dispatch his fear totems can be helpful. I suppose the same can be said of teemo's mushrooms.
3) Still, can't deny that Evelynn gets completely screwed by any team that has the intelligence to buy a ward or 2. She also happens to be my main, so I'm kind of touchy on the subject.