REMOVE Mana from items that aren't caster oriented.

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JunkRamen

Senior Member

01-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakantus View Post
No, I'm not. Those 3 are the biggest focus, but there are also the annies, veigar, karthus, warwick, twitch, ashe, alistar, whatever that ALREADY have enough mana, but they need a banshee's veil because the opposing team has stacked casters, so they waste 400g on a blue crystal they really shouldn't have to buy.
Do you actually play these champions? Annie is very heavy on mana. Karthus can always use more mana. Not sure about Twitch, but Catalyst first is a pretty good Ashe build. Alistar can definitely use that mana.

Quote:
Assume sheen is changed to not require a blue crystal. If you want sheen but you also desperately need some mana, whats so hard about buying a blue crystal and then buying a sheen?
So I get my Sheen about 5 minutes later than I should, because you want Sheen to work better with Tryndamere. No thanks. Sheen is something you want to buy asap for many champs that benefit from it and Sapphire Crystal is a good early game item.

Quote:
How would the physical DPS carrys feel if every item with crit on it also had armor, and every item with +attack speed had hp, and every item with +damage also had health regen? Yeah, I'm sure a few weirdos would be happy about such changes "yay I can build my high hp physical dps shaco build now" but overall it would remove options and make the itemization more annoying. This is how it is for AP champions right now, it's almost impossible to get AP without getting mana or mana regen.
I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to have more DPS items with hp on it, at least my Tryndamere and Shaco would.


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TiV3

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo7 View Post
Annie doesn't have enough to sustain through a team fight without hell of a high regen amount.
Because it's so hard to get golem buff as nuker. A good MP base isn't bad for that though. But a RoA and an extra catalyst are perfectly sufficient for that.


Edit: even without golem buff I'd prefer only 2 MP items over any kind of silly mp regen.


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Solus

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakantus View Post
I'm sure those people can find other items to handle their mana-regen or mana needs.
And I'm sure you can find other items that meet your needs. You're under no obligation to pick these +mana items up. Does Tryndamere benefit from Sheen's bonus mana? No. But he gets more benefit from a regrowth pendant than any mana user will get. Also, last I checked people get Banshee's for the spell block, not the mana or hp.

You're one of the many players in LoL who believe the game should cater exclusively to them and no one else. I play Trynny and Mundo and I have absolutely 0 trouble with the current items.


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Commodore Frank

Adjudicator

01-05-2010

How about we just remove mana from the game and make every champ like Katarina? That would be awesome!

/sarcasm


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SpandexFTW

Junior Member

01-05-2010

If you want -CD% just get the OTHER ITEMS that DON'T have mana such as a brutalizer. Oh but he says "QQ I need armor cause I like to nap mid game" Well then buy a flippin thornmail, 2k 100 armor, done half the price of ur heart, 1 more armor get the brutalizer too, little less -CD% but lower on cost too. There are LOTTS of items in this game to get the job done you want.

All in all, Drakantus, I feel what you really need is to read a thread on farming/last hitting then you won't feel the need to cry about costs of items and clutter the forum with stupid QQ threads like this one.


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Derthade

Junior Member

01-05-2010

LOl I have two possible conclusions about this thread either the thread author is a forum troll or a cry baby.

He is saying these items are not flexible because they force you to buy mana / mana regen items to get the full item well that makes everyone in the game except like 3 characters benefit from them how is that not flexible? You are also saying some heroes already have to much mana lol what are you trolling about? You named ashe as one of the character with to much mana when i play ashe i get philospher stone/boots/black cleaver/infinity edge/ then maybe banshees veil which is my only plus mana item or some lifesteal or attack speed item just because you play one character with no mana (MUNDO) and i guess only build him one way doesnt not mean that other people will build the same characters the same way or with the same items.

Another example tiamat great item but why the mana regen??? well i have read a few builds for different characters that rush that item first and that is there only source of mana regen and it is just the right amount plus they get attack dmg and all the other stats so how is that bad??? please play all the characters or try to learn about them and build them different ways to be a better player before you cry about nerfing items only to boost 3 heroes for no apparent reason other than you dont want to spend as much money on the items to build it


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Drakantus

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkRamen View Post
Do you actually play these champions? Annie is very heavy on mana. Karthus can always use more mana. Not sure about Twitch, but Catalyst first is a pretty good Ashe build. Alistar can definitely use that mana.
.
I've played them all. Annie needing mana, is this some sort of joke? Unless you are in a team fight you just last hit with disintegrate and spend basically no mana, in a team fight you spam a few spells fast but if you actually have time to run oom it pretty much means you won. I usually build 1 rod of the ages first and it is more than enough mana, yet due to lack of options I usually have to make a second, maybe a banshee veil maybe a zhonya's ring, and in the end i'll have about 1500 more mana than i ever use.

Karthus, are you joking? As a side effect of defile he regens a ton of mana passively, beyond the normal 1 rod of the ages he doesn't need any more mana items.

Ashe with catalyst first? What does that have to do with this topic? I am not talknig about changing catalyst in any way, that would be unchanged.

Alistar, you joking? 1 innervating locket is usually enough, a chalice of harmony if you need more mana.

The thing is there are dozens of strong mana/mana regen dedicated items, why is it tacked onto items that are based around other attributes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpandexFTW View Post
If you want -CD% just get the OTHER ITEMS that DON'T have mana such as a brutalizer. Oh but he says "QQ I need armor cause I like to nap mid game" Well then buy a flippin thornmail, 2k 100 armor, done half the price of ur heart, 1 more armor get the brutalizer too, little less -CD% but lower on cost too. There are LOTTS of items in this game to get the job done you want.

All in all, Drakantus, I feel what you really need is to read a thread on farming/last hitting then you won't feel the need to cry about costs of items and clutter the forum with stupid QQ threads like this one.
All of those items you mention are inferior for the purposes, because they have extraneous stats- brutalizer has a lot of damage which is wasted on a tank, thornmail has a passive you might not care about.

Look, this isn't rocket science, it's very simple- as a physical carry, I can get exactly what I want with ZERO wasted stats, but when I try any sort of AP champion I end up with a lot of extra mana at the end of the game and my only upgrades involve adding yet even more mana.

I build twitch, executioner's calling, berzerker greaves, black cleaver, infinity edge, phantom dancer, banshee's veil. Guess what item has wasted stats? The veil. None of the physical dps items have ANY wasted stats at all, but just try to find an AP or magic resist item without extra stats you don't want, they just don't exist except as the inefficient vanilla items.


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sycsadist

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Senior Member

01-05-2010

i think the OP is speaking out of concept and not trying it. some items like tiamats need mana, because thats how you start, lets say ashe, her attack will splash, so she need to spam volley to earn(at time becasue of the bonus damage). some need to spam skills, and not all are truly good at last hitting. lets say annie, can you get all the minions in your lane? you can, but are you good enough to actually do it. yeah right pro wannabe. assuming if in the lane ALONE, you can, try getting harassed while playing. some items are somewhat, hybrids which fit certain champ just right or almost perfectly. if almost had the same thought, but the more champs you try, the more you realize what champs need what items, or fit them during the right time.


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renticletape

Senior Member

01-06-2010

I think mana and mana regen should give alternative stats to non-mana champs like trynd, mundo and katerina. Like maybe convert the mana regen in HP regen, and the Mana into HP for example. For non mana champs, there HP is pretty much their mana so this would make sense. It doesn't have to be a 1 to 1 ratio but maybe like 70% of the additional mana regen or mana is converted into HP or HP regen for non-mana champs.


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Baron Corm

Senior Member

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by renticletape View Post
I think mana and mana regen should give alternative stats to non-mana champs like trynd, mundo and katerina. Like maybe convert the mana regen in HP regen, and the Mana into HP for example. For non mana champs, there HP is pretty much their mana so this would make sense. It doesn't have to be a 1 to 1 ratio but maybe like 70% of the additional mana regen or mana is converted into HP or HP regen for non-mana champs.
Just opened this thread to suggest this =). Good idea. I really doubt it will be implemented though. It's only relevant to 3 heroes, while other things are relevant to everyone. It should be done eventually IMO. Honestly I think Riot should hire more employees so that they can actually work on all of these things.