AD/Apen runes

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Brutalissimo

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10-24-2011

What runes should I get for AD carries : Flat AD;Flat armorpen;or something like 3/4 AD 1/4 Apen ?Could U give me a detailed rune page ?


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Dispersify

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Senior Member

10-24-2011

arpen is usually better than flat ad


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Brutalissimo

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Junior Member

10-24-2011

yeah but give me a rune build.pls


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Eledhan

Senior Member

10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutalissimo View Post
What runes should I get for AD carries : Flat AD;Flat armorpen;or something like 3/4 AD 1/4 Apen ?Could U give me a detailed rune page ?
It all depends on three factors...Does the champion have an ability that deals physical damage? Does the champion have an ability that scales with AD (total or bonus)? Do you have a difficult time last-hitting in your lane?

The assumption used here is that runes are primarily for enhancing your early game, not your late game. If late game is your concern, then Apen are DEFINITELY the way to go, because they scale better later on than early. The reason you may not want to consider late game, though, is that Last Whisper can make up for most of your Apen needs late game. Therefore, use the following concepts to determine the most useful runes for early-mid game.

Quote:
1) Are you playing any of the champions listed on the next line?
Ashe, Caitlyn, Ezreal, Miss Fortune, Urgot, or Vayne

If the answer is "yes", then you will get more damage output from Apen runes than AD runes. These champions have physical damage abilities, which all have base damage values. The Apen will enhance the base values, therefore giving Apen runes a slight edge over AD runes.

Build = Apen Marks for sure. Apen Quints if you aren't using utility or defensive quints (MS, HP, etc.)

If the answer is "no" then move to question 2.

2a) Are you playing any of the champions listed on the next line?
Corki or Sivir

If the answer is "yes", then you will see a better benefit from AD runes. These champions have magical damage abilities, but scale with AD. Therefore, you can increase your damage output from these abilities more with AD than with Apen.

Build = AD Marks for sure. AD Quints if you aren't using utility or defensive quints (MS, HP, etc.)

If the answer is "no", move to question 2b.

2b) Are you playing a ranged auto attacker listed in one of the above lists, but you prefer not to focus on their physical abilities? A good example is Miss Fortune using Make it Rain instead of Double Up early game.

If the answer is "yes", then you should probably consider using AD runes to make last hitting easier, as well as enhancing any AD scaling, magical damage abilities.

Build = AD or Mpen Marks, depending on champion and tactics. Quints based on champion being used...utility, AD, and AP can all be useful.

If the answer is "no" move to question 3.

3) Do you have difficulty landing your last-hits?

If the answer is "yes", either practice last hitting until you can, or buy AD runes.

Build = AD Marks or Quints...use the one you don't choose for something that makes your champion better.

If the answer is "no", then you are probably playing a non-physical champion such as Kog'Maw or Teemo that is still based on auto attacks from range. Champions like these require more in-depth analysis to determine the best runes for them, but as a general rule, AS or Mpen scales better on champions such as these.

Build = Depends on champion...for example, Kog'Maw scales excellently with AS or Mpen Marks.
I hope that helps ya!


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zomgz

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10-24-2011

I really enjoy flat Apen runes. I get 25 out of quints / reds, and an extra 6 from masteries which is enough to fully penetrate plenty of squishies up until level 6ish, and then any more armor pen will ensure full damage abilities and attacks. For example, with Cait when I solo and have 31 armor pen my q's and r's are insanely high damaging because full penetration (or close to it). As far as other runes go, I like flat armor yellows for lane sustainability (to defend against my own strat basically) and depending on the champion I like flat cdr blues for 'caster ad's' such as cait and ez.


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Brutalissimo

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10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
It all depends on three factors...Does the champion have an ability that deals physical damage? Does the champion have an ability that scales with AD (total or bonus)? Do you have a difficult time last-hitting in your lane?

The assumption used here is that runes are primarily for enhancing your early game, not your late game. If late game is your concern, then Apen are DEFINITELY the way to go, because they scale better later on than early. The reason you may not want to consider late game, though, is that Last Whisper can make up for most of your Apen needs late game. Therefore, use the following concepts to determine the most useful runes for early-mid game.



I hope that helps ya!
I wanna build this for champs like cait or irelia...And I dont have problems early game with farming, just I have really small damage with 1 doran`s blade-not more than 80 .Still I think AD is better and also using a last whisper in game.Also as I said I think that 3/4 damage and 1/4 apen will still be usefull.Dont U think It`s better ?


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Eledhan

Senior Member

10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutalissimo View Post
I wanna build this for champs like cait or irelia...And I dont have problems early game with farming, just I have really small damage with 1 doran`s blade-not more than 80 .Still I think AD is better and also using a last whisper in game.Also as I said I think that 3/4 damage and 1/4 apen will still be usefull.Dont U think It`s better ?
It's funny you mention Cait...

I JUST finished a Level 6 analysis for her before I saw this thread.

I compared the following rune pages...
AD marks & quints
Apen marks & quints
AD marks with Apen Quints
Apen marks with AD quints

I compared the damage of the following damage sources...
Auto attack
Critical Hit
Headshot
Peacemaker
Ultimate
All of these combined in one skirmish or combo

I also compared the damage in terms of % of max HP of 3 different kinds of targets...
Squishy target (35 Armor & 1070 HP)
Median target (55 Armor & 1235 HP)
Tanky target (75 Armor & 1400)

The rune page listed above that dealt the highest % of total target HP damage for ALL categories was the full Apen page (marks & quints). Caitlyn is a great test for this because she has greater than 1.0 AD ratios on all of her skills, which make AD quite close to Apen in terms of damage output.

It would be worthwhile to note that although full Apen wins, it's only between 0% to 3% of the target's total HP more damage, depending on which target and which damage source you look at.

However, if you were to do the same comparison with Ashe, you would find that Apen is going to be MUCH better against all targets than AD would be, since her Volley AD ratio is only 1.0, unlike Caitlyn's 1.3 AD ratio on Peacemaker. At NO POINT did auto attacks benefit more from AD than Apen, which means that AD would be a poor choice regardless of champion except for EXTREMELY early game (levels 1-3) where your Apen is overkill against squishy champs.


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Brutalissimo

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Junior Member

10-24-2011

so now Apen wins ???


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Vidal

Senior Member

10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutalissimo View Post
so now Apen wins ???
Yes.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutalissimo View Post
so now Apen wins ???
Apen wins on Cait...

But in your OP, you didn't mention which champion(s) you were asking about rune pages for...

For example, you might have been asking about Sivir or Corki....both of which scale better with AD...

Or you might have been asking about Kog'Maw, who doesn't scale very well with AD or Apen...better to get Mpen or AS on him.

Since you didn't specify, I gave you a little logical flow concept to help you figure out what to do based on which champ...but once you DID specify, it was clear that the answer to your question was Apen.