New type of carry build?

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Zidane

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

Actually interesting. Didn't expect that when I clicked on the thread.


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Audhulma

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Sounds interesting, the only thing that would be problematic is that IE boosts crit damage on top of its high AD boost, which is a really big deal for some champions. If i was any good at physical carries anymore I would definitely try it.


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Professor Hawk

Senior Member

01-05-2011

First thing that came to my head when I saw the changes.


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yxescocoa

Junior Member

01-05-2011

from a utility perspective, i think the armor % reduction given to abilities should be taken into account from LW. i think both build are viable, but situational


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Kaiden

Senior Member

01-05-2011

shhhh this is too similiar to my caitlyn build stop telling everyone!


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Mothalova

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Going for infinite edge on non-crit champs with AD scaling abilities is wrong. ( Pantheon, MF, Corki, Ezreal, Trundle, Caitlynn, whoever I am forgetting ) Because the crit and crit damage is waisted since you won't auto-attack that many times at all, and most of these abilities can't crit.

And also because for 3250 Gold, you get Bloodthirster, wich is 830g less then Infinite Edge.

Infinite Edge gives 75 Damage, Bloodthirster gives 60 dmg + 1 per kill. ( Minions count )

That Means that after only 15 kills ( minions included ), it's the same ammount of dmg ( wich is pretty much the only stat that your concerned about with IE if your champ isn't crit based like Ashe, Trynd, Gankplank, Shaco, etc. ) And If you have more then 15 kills of minions or champs, you have more dmg then IE for 830 less gold.

And you also get up to 50% lifesteal for free.

TL ; DR Bloodthirster is better then Infinite Edge for any champs that has no synergy with critical hits.


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ImpGuard

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audhulma View Post
Sounds interesting, the only thing that would be problematic is that IE boosts crit damage on top of its high AD boost, which is a really big deal for some champions. If i was any good at physical carries anymore I would definitely try it.
Yea, carries that inherently have attack speed buffs would still opt for an IE. This build is more suited carries that don't have a steroid, such as Caitlyn. Since the build is cheaper, what you lose in Crit damage is made up for some extra Crit chance by buying a 400 gold brawlers gloves.

Technically, the difference of 3% Crit chance is barely anything, and given equal attack speed, the IE would give a boost of 1.41 of your AA when chance is considered on average, whereas the black cleaver and youmuus would provide only a 1.31 boost over time on average, However, this neglects the 80% AS boost from the new build, and the 30 extra attack from the old build, as well as the stronger armor penetration on squishes from the new build.

EDIT: @Mothalova, your point is well spoken, but the problem is farming up those bloodthirster stacks and the possibility of dying. 40 minion kills are ALOT and if you die more than once, it's not going to be maxed. Also, it's not true that AD Scaling champs require more AD rather than Crit. Just because these champs have AD spells doesn't necessarily make them an AD caster. Pantheon is a special case, but characters like Ezreal are most viable when built with IE and LW because he has a great AS boost comparable to basically any ranged carry. He has similar range to MF, better AS, and stronger escape, perfect to be an autoattack carry.


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Eddy01741

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecuu View Post
Personally, I like the way this looks on paper.

Ghostblade is one of the most underrated items in the game, and the new Cleaver looks promising.
Ghostblade...... is not underrated in any way. It is the staple of every melee DPS build. If it weren't for ghostblade, melee DPS would be dead, not just almost dead.

I don't like ghostblade that much on ranged champions. 4 seconds isn't much. If anything I'd stop at brutalizer and then save that extra 1350 gold for something else. Brutalizer is amazing for melee and ranged DPS alike. Ghostblade isn't as efficient as the stat benefits from brutalizer are fairly small (15% crit chance, 5 AD, 5 armor pen, 5% CDR), so a lot of the gold is spent on the passive.

Black cleaver.... I see the new black cleaver as a nerf from old black cleaver in a way. Yes you get more armor reduction per hit, but the total is down by 15. So by 4 hits on the old cleaver would reduce more armor. 75 damage->55 damage? Hurts because attack speed is so easy to itemize for (buy a recurve bow, you can upgrade it later).


I'm sorry, but I still see the Infinity Edge as the staple item for 90% of ranged carries. Infinity Edge simply has too much potential, the passive and crit chance alone mean you do 30% more DPS. I do agree that Infinity Edge+Last Whisper+Elixir of Agility is no longer the go to ranged carry faceroll combo, as elixirs got nerfed pretty hard, and last whisper no longer offers any attack speed. However, I don't feel like this is proper grounds to take away the infinity edge.

I would experiment around with the zeal and cheaper phantom dancer in combination with the infinity edge. The day 1.0.0.107 came out somebody mathcrafted that on average (aka, on opponents without huge amounts of armor), phantom dancer and infinity edge would be more gold efficient for DPS than infinity edge and last whisper. The only problem is that after 7k gold spent on DPS items you are still rocking only 31 armor pen with full runes and masteries. I was thinking, perhaps buy Infinity Edge first, buy zeal, then buy last whisper, complete PD later if possible. Or even simpler, buy infinity edge first, buy recurve bow, buy last whisper, upgrade recurve bow later if possible.

Quite simply, due to the inbuilt potential of Infinity Edge's unique passive, I still see it as the dominant ranged DPS item. Yes, a mix of other items may be more powerful early on, but hey, if you want early game item efficiency, all you need to do is stack 5 doran's blades, you get 500 HP, 40 AD, and 15% lifesteal for the cheap cost of 2175 gold (Worth is over 3k gold with base item comparison). Infinity Edge will grow stronger with every DPS item you buy afterwards, this applies to elixirs too, especially green elixir.

If all you want is ideal gold/DPS ratio on the cheap, you look no farther than madred's bloodrazor. 30 damage, 40% attack speed, and an on hit 4% of enemy max HP (so on average, between 60-160 extra damage). But madreds has so little potential. All you can do is add attack speed to make the on-hit effect proc more. There's a reason why many Warwicks go boots, bloodrazor, then pure defense items. It's because Bloodrazor is the single best stand-alone DPS item in the game, bar none.

However, you are the ranged DPS carry, you rely on your superior early game solo lane farm and champion kills (since you should be getting as many kills as possible, even if it means KSing), so you don't just buy one DPS item and call it quits for DPS. No, you keep buying DPS items, and that's why Infinity Edge excels. You buy infinity edge, fairly good DPS item on its own, ,75 attack damage, 30% more DPS overall, pretty good, right? Only gets better with every DPS item you add to it, especially crit items.

TL;DR: Infinity Edge+Last Whisper is no longer the de facto item combo, but infinity edge will remain core on ranged DPS's due to it's huge DPS potential. Champions like Tristana can still pull off infinity edge and last whisper due to her huge attack speed steroid. Other should consider investing in attack speed between IE and LW.


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CaptainShark

Senior Member

01-05-2011

I've always liked playing around with ArPen runes, BC and Starks. They go perfectly together.


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Yobber

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TankHunter678 View Post
Then either way, you do full damage to squishies, and since most tanky characters stop at 150 armor you are reducing them down to about 55.
Lol...who stops at 150 armor?


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