New type of carry build?

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ImpGuard

Senior Member

01-04-2011

I tried out a new build in a practice game, so this isn't from real real experience. However, after fiddling around with it, I'm thinking of a new carry build that may be just as good as the IE/LW build that many carries have been running with up to now.

The problem with the IE/LW build that carries used to use now, is that it no longer brings AS. Whereas before, any carry could build IE/LW and greenpot to get a whopping 25%+ critical chance, but also have great armor pen and great attack speed to boot, along with the amazing IE crit passive. After the nerf/changes, this build wasn't as viable anymore, but many champions still use it since they get inherent attack speed anyways (Ezreal, MF, Tristana)

However, after playing around with Caitlyn, I began thinking about the new item changes (mainly with Black Cleaver) and how there could be a different type of build for carries who don't have natural steroids (Caitlyn, Ashe etc.)

The standard build I see most carries build is IE/LW, 6170 gold.
+ 115 attack damage
+ 20% critical chance
Passive: 40% Armor Penetration
Passive: 250% Critical damage

What I was thinking was this, Black Cleaver + Youmuu's Ghostblade, 5752 gold.
+ 85 attack damage
+ 30% attack speed
+ 15% critical chance
+ 15% cooldown reduction
+ 20 armor penetration

Passive: 45 Armor Penetration over 3 hits
Active: +50% attack speed and 20% movement speed

In the second build, with armor pen runes and offensive masteries, you're reaching a maximum of 96 armor penetration, which is better than the 40% armor penetration of LW up to 240 armor. You're getting a bit less damage, crit chance, and the amazing crit passive, but you're gaining 80% attack speed. You also save 418 gold, which can be used to buy some basic crit item to get more crit chance overall. Basically, with the same money, this new build is giving me more chance to crit and almost double my base attack speed, while punishing squishies by reducing them to 0 armor. The bonus movement speed and cooldown reduction is just an even cooler plus to this build.

You'll be doing equal damage to those rushing a IE since you'll have a BF sword first. However, you'll quickly get the BC before they get IE, and be attacking fast and reducing armor by 70. When they finally get an IE, you'll have a brutalizer, and have basically 85 armor reduction, attack speed, and cooldown.

What do you think?

Tl;dr - Possible new build for non-steroid champions, Black Cleaver + Youmuu's versus IE/LW.


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Poochku

Senior Member

01-04-2011

Nice theorycraft


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Vantwan

Senior Member

01-04-2011

I'll try this out tomorrow. Thanks for sharing your ideas.


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Threads

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Adjudicator

01-04-2011

did you stop to think how armour pen and armour reduction interract?


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Reiver

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Senior Member

01-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threads View Post
did you stop to think how armour pen and armour reduction interract?
they don't interact destructively if that's what you're worried about

if the person has less armor than the reduction, you can send them the reduction's value into the negative

if they have more armor than the reduction and less than the pen + reduction they end up effectively at 0, and if they have more than both combined they just lose all that juicy armor


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ImpGuard

Senior Member

01-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by H911Reiver View Post
they don't interact destructively if that's what you're worried about

if the person has less armor than the reduction, you can send them the reduction's value into the negative

if they have more armor than the reduction and less than the pen + reduction they end up effectively at 0, and if they have more than both combined they just lose all that juicy armor
Yea, overall, if they have between 45 - 96 armor, you're hitting them for full damage after 3 autoattacks. If they have more, you're basically reducing 96 armor, which is more effective than LW up to 240 armor. If they have less than 45 armor (not going to happen) you'll be taking them to negative armor and doing bonus damage.


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Nex A Umbras

Senior Member

01-04-2011

I like it. Sounds promising.
You might just start something.


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Sanman

Senior Member

01-04-2011

You don't get bonus damage for taking them negative armor, because you can't reduce armor to negative value son champs. You can on jungle creeps from what I've seen, but not on champs.

Phreak has said this multiple times.


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TankHunter678

Senior Member

01-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhmah View Post
You don't get bonus damage for taking them negative armor, because you can't reduce armor to negative value son champs. You can on jungle creeps from what I've seen, but not on champs.

Phreak has said this multiple times.
Then either way, you do full damage to squishies, and since most tanky characters stop at 150 armor you are reducing them down to about 55.


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Vecuu

Senior Member

01-04-2011

Personally, I like the way this looks on paper.

Ghostblade is one of the most underrated items in the game, and the new Cleaver looks promising.


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