How many matches are completely one sided?

All (>90%) 37 19.79%
Most (>70%) 114 60.96%
Some (>30%) 34 18.18%
None (>0%) 2 1.07%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

Most matches are completely one-sided beatdowns.

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Rumbalaka

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Member

01-24-2010

Lol they have had some math guys check their math and they said it made sense.....really what kind of game designers really think some math guys understand the slightest of game balancing which is just crowded with meta logics-_- anyway this system EPIC FAIL

luckely me and my friends played alot of dota so we as low lvl "noobs" usually take down the lvl 20+ -30 teams


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Gigg

Senior Member

01-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenshnell View Post
Last time I checked, PhD's cannot calculate Fun.


Similarly, losing players who manage a 21/3/8 should gain 7 times more ELO than the average for his team loss. To make this completely accurate, this should only affect Solo queu results. Premade results SHOULD be based off team ELO, since they are working as a complete team (assuming they are using vent and pre-coordinating).
I believe this is somewhat wrong... That Malphite that had 2-16-27 had a freaking good game if he tanked well enough to make his team win. Meanwhile, in the other team, the 20-4-0 carry that used expunge(You never ever saw that, havn't you?) to steal all kills and went creeping when the nexus towers were taken down is not that good.

Just want to point out that personnal score is not always showing the talent of somebody.


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Blorg

Junior Member

01-24-2010

Guys, don't forget that this post was not about matchmaking, but about the gameplay mechanics causing one-sided matches:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LahooZaher View Post
Now I have seen alot of posts complaining about the matchmaking, about getting teamed with noobs, etc, but that doesn't really bother me.
...
But my point is that the losses are always so one-sided. To me, it feels like whichever team gets off to a good start wins, that once you get an advantage in levels and gold it's next to impossible for the other team to have a comeback.
...
So how many other people feel that most of the matches are one sided, and what kind of game balances or tweaks can we make to counteract it?
I definitely enjoy this game, but I noticed this same flaw a long time ago in DotA-Allstars. The game is built on a teetering balance that rewards successes with momentum and punishes failures with even more difficulty. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the learning curve is incredibly steep.

If one team can push and destroy a barracks, that lane becomes even easier for them. If one player gets a kill, they get a boost in power through gold and experience, while the other player gets effectively nerfed through lost gold/exp during time spent dead. If a player gets ganked a few times early on, making a personal comeback is nearly impossible.

(Granted, you can't take away all rewards for doing well, otherwise you take away the whole point of trying and winning will be impossible. A good balance must be struck.)

I think LoL has taken many steps toward that more fun back-and-forth match, such as making inhibitors respawn, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you lose gold for dying like in DotA, which is such a relief. Here are some more suggestions:

  • Make all turrets respawn as well, starting with the inner turrets in each lane and moving out. This will force the front line back towards the center of the map. (Gold/exp given should have diminishing returns to avoid turret-farming)
  • Also, destroying turrets should become increasingly difficult the closer you get to the enemy's base.
  • "Catch-Up the Noob": give bonus exp/gold to the player and/or team with the lowest experience or worst score. This could be a periodic effect or continuous over time. (This should boost the worst player no higher than the second-worst to avoid rewarding intentional lameness) (Credit for this idea goes to the maker of the Warcraft III map, Magus Arena)
  • "C-C-C-Combo Breaker!": I'm not sure how to implement this. In many 2-D fighter games, a player can stop an onslaught of attacks by pulling off a very difficult maneuver. In LoL, this would allow a team to abruptly halt a build-up of momentum through a show of extreme skill. Maybe destroying a powerful neutral monster (like the Baron) would mow down all enemies in the nearby lane. Or maybe 3 champions can channel an ability (see http://www.wowwiki.com/Ritual_of_Summoning) in their base as it is being overrun that, if successfully completed, instantly kills all enemies within their base, respawns turrets/inhibitors, etc.

I know some of these ideas are kinda crazy, but I'm just getting the creative juices going :) What kind of ideas do you guys have?


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Runict

Member

01-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unhandled View Post
If you're under level 10 you're going to die to anyone over level 19 just by looking at their runes and masteries, not taking play experience into question at all. It's completely disgusting that MM would ever put a level 5 in a game with anyone 20+. That's just plain rude (and wrong).

Honestly, longer queue times would fix 90% of the problems, IMHO. The vast majority of my games pop in less than 5 seconds. I am perfectly content with waiting a minute.
WIN! I agree more with this than any other rec I have read.

I obviously have one whole minute to spare.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
Guys, don't forget that this post was not about matchmaking, but about the gameplay mechanics causing one-sided matches:



I definitely enjoy this game, but I noticed this same flaw a long time ago in DotA-Allstars. The game is built on a teetering balance that rewards successes with momentum and punishes failures with even more difficulty. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the learning curve is incredibly steep.

If one team can push and destroy a barracks, that lane becomes even easier for them. If one player gets a kill, they get a boost in power through gold and experience, while the other player gets effectively nerfed through lost gold/exp during time spent dead. If a player gets ganked a few times early on, making a personal comeback is nearly impossible.

(Granted, you can't take away all rewards for doing well, otherwise you take away the whole point of trying and winning will be impossible. A good balance must be struck.)

I think LoL has taken many steps toward that more fun back-and-forth match, such as making inhibitors respawn, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you lose gold for dying like in DotA, which is such a relief. Here are some more suggestions:

  • Make all turrets respawn as well, starting with the inner turrets in each lane and moving out. This will force the front line back towards the center of the map. (Gold/exp given should have diminishing returns to avoid turret-farming)
  • Also, destroying turrets should become increasingly difficult the closer you get to the enemy's base.
  • "Catch-Up the Noob": give bonus exp/gold to the player and/or team with the lowest experience or worst score. This could be a periodic effect or continuous over time. (This should boost the worst player no higher than the second-worst to avoid rewarding intentional lameness) (Credit for this idea goes to the maker of the Warcraft III map, Magus Arena)
  • "C-C-C-Combo Breaker!": I'm not sure how to implement this. In many 2-D fighter games, a player can stop an onslaught of attacks by pulling off a very difficult maneuver. In LoL, this would allow a team to abruptly halt a build-up of momentum through a show of extreme skill. Maybe destroying a powerful neutral monster (like the Baron) would mow down all enemies in the nearby lane. Or maybe 3 champions can channel an ability (see http://www.wowwiki.com/Ritual_of_Summoning) in their base as it is being overrun that, if successfully completed, instantly kills all enemies within their base, respawns turrets/inhibitors, etc.

I know some of these ideas are kinda crazy, but I'm just getting the creative juices going What kind of ideas do you guys have?
Some interesting concepts here. I definitely think turrets should matter more after level 6. Even as Twitch I can usually take a turret down lategame if I have just 4-6 creeps with me (not using SnP backdoor). And letting them respawn actually helps make the long term game a bit more interesting (it's quite silly if both teams have had all pre-inhib turrets destroyed).

Better yet though, allow the players to "rebuild" turrets for gold. 700 gold builds a turret (new menu set in the shop), and 700 gold buys a consumable item that upgrades the nearest turret. And 500 gold for an item to fully repair a turret. In this sense, a turret gains the "value" of a bit better than a single player-kill.


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Synapscape

Member

01-27-2010

I'm liking some idea's peopel are throwing around here, but let me share my opinion, if I may.

I like the one guys idea with the turrets being more difficult the closer you get. For the other idea, lets be realisitically. If they were to respawn, would a game ever finish??? Sometimes it can take quite a bit of time to get one turret down if 3 enemies rush you while your trying to take one down.

On the other hand, as the previous poster mentioned, building them back up with gold isn't a bad concept... I would change it to something more like... 350g per 20% of the towers HP... Would require more of a team effort to get it back up and running, only because I think teamwork is by far the biggest factor in this game. So if you all want it, you're all working towards it...Additionally, after you contribute your 350g, you can't contribute to same turret for another 5 mins. 350g isn't anything insane to come by so I think that'd be a fair mount...


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jmackz

Junior Member

01-27-2010

After thinking about this issue further I will make a simple suggestion for matchmaking.

First off the "increase" stated in the matchmaking system explained forum.

If you are in a pre-made team, your rating is the average of you and your team members, along with an increase based on the type of pre-made you are to make sure that you get tougher opponents, because being a pre-made is an advantage.

IMO the "advantage" that is stated above isn't as much of an "advantage" as you may think. Also when it says "type of pre-made" does it mean the number of people that the premade consists of? Because sometimes I que with only 2, both ~lvl 13 and seem to go up against a full team of lvl 30s.

So instead of just complaining on the forums, I am going to make some constructive criticism.

Separate ques into Tiers

7 Tiers

  • 1-5
  • 6-10
  • 11-15
  • 16-20
  • 21-25
  • 26-29
  • 30
If people que as a Arranged Team take the average of their 2 tiers and go up 1 tier per player que'd as AT

so if a 30 and a 1 que as arranged team it would put them in Tier 4 (16-20), Tier 3 as the floor of the aveage of their Tier Value + 1 since they que'd with 1 other person.

so if a 14 and a 14 que as arranged team it would put them in Tier 4 (16-20) Tier 3 as the floor of the average of their Tier Value + 1 since they que'd with 1 other person.

and if 3 14s que'd they would obviously go in Tier 5 (21-25) que

I believe that the levels are distributed enough now to implement this type of system.

Seeing how I am a software developer as well, I know how much of a pain in the @$$ it is to spend so much time implementing a system (the queing/matchmaking system) to have so many people criticize and complain about it, but some things are better off s****ped or reworked to death in order to keep the game enjoyable, because as of now they "auto-balance" feature of HoN that separates teams based off a visible PSR (elo rating) in real-time creates a much more competitive and enjoyable experieince, i've played about 30 games and no game was a complete massacre 1 sided beatdown like my last 5 games have been in LoL.

Thanks,
Justin


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Sh4d0wr3nD

Member

03-02-2010

I have not read the 5 pages of discussion for this thread, but I will add my thought:

The reason for why the matchmaking is so ass-broken is because there is a SOLO pool and an ARRANGED team pool. By this I mean that the ARRANGED pool is between 2 and 5 players that are pre-made.

5-man premade >>> 2-man + 2-man + solo
5-man premade >>> 3-man + 2man
5-man premade >>> 4-man + solo

It's not rocket science.

As for when you play solo - I barely ever lose in Solo games because I always play heroes that can stand on their own two feet. If anybody plays team heroes or healers in a solo - you should probably re-think your tactics.


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Mercurius

Senior Member

03-02-2010

Blind pick. Nuff said.


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Ub3rGoob3r

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Recruiter

03-02-2010

I'm going to step into this giant text-based orgy of stupidity, and say:

WHAT IS THIS DOING IN THE FRONTEND INTERFACE FORUM??

And WHY oh god WHY does EVERYONE have something so stupid to ***** and yang about over the forums, and over this FREE GAME offered to you. No one is playing train with a fork and forcing this game into your mouth.

The answer to all your problems, right here:

THEY'RE ****ING WORKING ON IT!

Riot definately doesn't have time to read this thread, they're already months ahead of you working on ELO or whatever the hell is going to make you children stop *****ing about "One-sided fist-fights"

Here's a point of advice to avoid those one-sided fights:

Arranged team games. Play defensively. Stop feeding. You lose, because you fail at keeping yourself alive.

Other than that, you're all neglecting to realize that this is a video game, and getting way too worked up about it.