Team Strategy

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Roadkill

Senior Member

09-22-2009

I have perused a great many guides here, but I feel like there's something missing - teamwork strategy.

Unless a champion is imbalanced, or they have been fed like crazy early game, I find it rare that one person alone can steamroll the other team into victory. By design, winning must be a team effort. But I don't see enough discussion on team mechanics, too. This makes sense, as most people just play PUGs and don't have a chance to coordinate as a team.

So, I was wondering what people's thoughts were on these basic issues:

1. When is it time to push? How do you decide which lanes to push?

2. When you're team battling, who should be targeted first? Should you hit the stuns? The DPS? The tanks?

3. When should your team stick together as one? When is it safe to split up and work on multiple lanes?

4. When should the team work on the dragon or the baron?

Of course, the answers to these questions are circumstantial. Still, I want to learn how to be a better participant in a battle, rather than just another champion trying to get a gank or take down a tower.


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manco

Junior Member

09-22-2009

Bump, would like to see some discussion at this topic. I generally think that if its good idea to split or stick together depends on how many enemy champions are alive.


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hsuster

Junior Member

09-22-2009

1. When is it time to push? How do you decide which lanes to push?

Well, lanes should be constantly pushing when they can. The game is usually devised of two parts-- the first part, where everyone holds their 2-2-1 lanes, and the second part, when everyone starts ganking. It's the second part that starts getting confusing, because whether you're winning or losing, it's the pushing that's going to win/lose the game for you. Rather than tell you when to push, i'll just stick to my "push when you can" theory. What causes losses a lot of the time is when teams get obsessed with ganking-- if that fails, then people die, and their lanes go to sh**. So try to push as much as possible, gank if you need to and then keep pushing-- and remember that it's really hard to stop a 5-man push, even if you're losing badly.

2. When you're team battling, who should be targeted first? Should you hit the stuns? The DPS? The tanks?

If you're team battling, I would ping the squishy DPS ones (Ryze, Ashe, etc). It's a wonder how different a 5-man push is than a 4-man push. And if you think about it, if you're going after a tank or something, the DPS one is gonna shred you up. Take out the damage, and once you go one by one, you can all gang up on the Malphites and Alistars :P.

3. When should your team stick together as one? When is it safe to split up and work on multiple lanes?

This one's very situational. In the second part of the game, single players get targeted by full teams. That's just how it goes. I don't think I've ever been in a game where each group stays in their own lanes the whole game-- so remember that near the end game, the minimap is VERY very important. If you can keep your eyes on 5 red dots, and you're by yourself, you should be ok. If you only see 1 and you're by yourself, run like hell. No joke. Just observe as much as possible, and with experience, you'll know when to get out.
Also, it depends on which hero you are-- if you're Kayle, Warwick, etc, you can push a tower in 5-10 seconds by level 15. Just take the tower down, and get out-- by endgame, if there's a tower getting owned, your team should be pinging like crazy haha.

4. When should the team work on the dragon or the baron?

I work on the dragon EVERY time it goes up. It's a huge gold/exp boost, and totally worth it. The baron, on the other hand, is a toughie. I would definitely not suggest it if you're getting worked-- the time spent killing it and probably dying means that some towers are getting screwed. Now if you're winning but it's taking a while to win, go for it. It's a good buff (if they fixed it) and it should lead you to an easy victory. If your teams are about equal at the point, I would say that maybe you should wait until you get a slight lead.


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Wisewind

Senior Member

12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by hsuster View Post
1. When is it time to push? How do you decide which lanes to push?

Well, lanes should be constantly pushing when they can. The game is usually devised of two parts-- the first part, where everyone holds their 2-2-1 lanes, and the second part, when everyone starts ganking. It's the second part that starts getting confusing, because whether you're winning or losing, it's the pushing that's going to win/lose the game for you. Rather than tell you when to push, i'll just stick to my "push when you can" theory. What causes losses a lot of the time is when teams get obsessed with ganking-- if that fails, then people die, and their lanes go to sh**. So try to push as much as possible, gank if you need to and then keep pushing-- and remember that it's really hard to stop a 5-man push, even if you're losing badly.

2. When you're team battling, who should be targeted first? Should you hit the stuns? The DPS? The tanks?

If you're team battling, I would ping the squishy DPS ones (Ryze, Ashe, etc). It's a wonder how different a 5-man push is than a 4-man push. And if you think about it, if you're going after a tank or something, the DPS one is gonna shred you up. Take out the damage, and once you go one by one, you can all gang up on the Malphites and Alistars :P.

3. When should your team stick together as one? When is it safe to split up and work on multiple lanes?

This one's very situational. In the second part of the game, single players get targeted by full teams. That's just how it goes. I don't think I've ever been in a game where each group stays in their own lanes the whole game-- so remember that near the end game, the minimap is VERY very important. If you can keep your eyes on 5 red dots, and you're by yourself, you should be ok. If you only see 1 and you're by yourself, run like hell. No joke. Just observe as much as possible, and with experience, you'll know when to get out.
Also, it depends on which hero you are-- if you're Kayle, Warwick, etc, you can push a tower in 5-10 seconds by level 15. Just take the tower down, and get out-- by endgame, if there's a tower getting owned, your team should be pinging like crazy haha.

4. When should the team work on the dragon or the baron?

I work on the dragon EVERY time it goes up. It's a huge gold/exp boost, and totally worth it. The baron, on the other hand, is a toughie. I would definitely not suggest it if you're getting worked-- the time spent killing it and probably dying means that some towers are getting screwed. Now if you're winning but it's taking a while to win, go for it. It's a good buff (if they fixed it) and it should lead you to an easy victory. If your teams are about equal at the point, I would say that maybe you should wait until you get a slight lead.
Covers all the bases well. Just want to add a few things

1. I agree that pushing should be done as much as possible, but when it is safe to. Map awareness and knowing matchups of enemy champs will help you with this. If you are playing from behind meaning that the other team is leading in kills or towers, you have to focus on wiping them out or at least their carries when they make their next push so you can push back. It's hard to be aggressive as a team when they have the edge in levels, money, and towers.


3. A lot of different reasons for this, but generally heroes that can easily escape a gank attempt should split, everyone else should stay together. This is good for baiting tactics that setup team wipes. Also if you are engaged in a teamfight where the enemy team is at their tower, send your best pusher to another lane.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

My 2cents

1. When is it time to push? How do you decide which lanes to push?
Depending on team comp, right away, always after a enemy Champion Kill where you have a number advantage in lane. If you can't get to a lane to help against a gank, but can counter-push. Always get tower hits in when you can, even if that means taking a few potshots in the process.

2. When you're team battling, who should be targeted first? Should you hit the stuns? The DPS? The tanks?
This is the most difficult thing to decide on, as typically the one you want to target first is a Shaco or a Twitch that wont show up until you engage with the rest of their annoying team, You should always first burst down the squishy dps target that is the closest, or beat on tanks that push. This is very frustrating to do and coordinate as positioning and where the battle takes place is always a factor. A team with a little map awareness, and on your end pushing towers seems to always be more difficult to engage and focus on then when you are on their end, as by then there is typically an advantage for them. If it is still anyone's ball-game try to single out their ranged dps, then melee dps, depending on the threat, tanks can be mostly ignored, but if they over-extend punish them, and their fragile team is left behind to pillage. (I have a bad habit as a tank of overextending)

3. When should your team stick together as one? When is it safe to split up and work on multiple lanes?
Usually at higher lvl play, it is always a mistake to split push lanes unless you have vision of your enemies, all towers are still up, or they persist to split push. This is usually after the side lanes hit lvl 6-7. Some characters can split push very effectively. Like a Sivir/Shaco/Twitch/Yi provided their movespeed and ability to quickly take down towers with or without minions.
Ive also seen Trynd, Nunu, Kassadin and Karthus do this well. Primarily you want to start 5man map control around lvls 6-7, taking frontline towers asap before they take yours, and taking over the jungle to bleed out their experience gaining ability.

4. When should the team work on the dragon or the baron?
This is such a crucial aspect of winning games, that it drives me nuts during a game. I usually am the one with Clairvoyance, and eye this spot so many times if my team refuses to go and grab it asap I usually know it is a sign that we will be in for a long painful game. You need to fight over dragon, and take Dragon at every opportunity. A Shaco with a Smite can turn-games around be stealing this kill. The Dragon gives global gold and EXP, the EXP is what makes it game changing. The last game I played last night, we had completely lane dominated them, but they took dragon twice by lvl 8 and out leveled us. That slight level boost allowed them to out push us 5man and ultimately win the game, after we had out killed them 8-1 in the first 8minutes of the game. Another example is the game before that, where I pinged Baron, knowing they were going for it, and 3 of us were there, 2 running from base. I stepped a bit too far out, and they took me out quickly, not getting the support from my nearby teammates, and then they ran back to base afraid to engage. Once they had Baron, it was very easy for them to push our inner towers, as the buff offered enough to push their team over the edge, and the global xp+gold helped them hit max faster. Watch out for Baron pushes around lvl 12 now, as it can be and has been done many times that early. Ward these places as often and as much as you can.. Mushrooms, wards, Jitb's etc.


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KamikadzeTM

Member

12-30-2009

4. I think that when winning doing the baron is very important thing not only because of the buff but because when the enemy is pushed back in their base defending they stick together and sometimes it's reaaaaaaaaally hard to gather your team in one place. When we do the Baron we gather everyone and then push like a team.
For example today i had a 65 min game cause our team couldn't mobilize to do the final push (they were in their base with no other towers but the nexus ones!!!).