ELO math inventor reproved in Math.

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Izeo

Senior Member

02-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin Aldo View Post
What this guy said.

ELO was designed for things like fighting games and strategy games where your own personal skill is the criteria for matching you against opponents. It also expands well to encompass games with a large number of players per side. If you're playing a shooter that's 12v12 or 16v16, the overall variance of ELO within each team is negligible.

The problem is games with small teams - between, say, 3 and 8 players. Each individual is expected to contribute to the whole. However, very high and very low ELO players are rare since everyone tends toward the average.

Functionally, this means that as you get better and your ELO gets higher, you're increasingly likely to get matched with a bunch of scrubs because there aren't enough people of your actual skill level around to form a game. As you get worse, you're matched with increasingly skilled teammates to compensate for your lack of skill.

In short, if you want to get into a skilled team in a random queue, you're better off losing a ton of games to dump your ELO so you're matched with better players. This is true until the competitive scene develops to the point where there are consistently active players in the upper ELO ranges. However, ELO is designed to prevent this from happening.

I was actually just ranting about this on hoursplayed.com but it's good to know other people have noticed the same thing. I had the same problem with Global Agenda - I got very good at the game and started getting matched to teams I was expected to carry, which is basically impossible.
By what you just described, if you're lower elo you get paired with more skilled players to "compensate," but if you're higher elo you get paired with scrubs because people aren't likely to truly be of that skill level. In both of these scenarios you're saying "low elo has unskilled(the "you" in your post) and skilled" and "high elo has skilled(the "you" in your post) and unskilled" -- so if no matter the elo, you'll have skilled and unskilled players involved, wouldn't it be more likely that you get skilled players with you in high elo than getting skilled players in low elo?


And just to add to the "you can't carry that much" -- I went from 1250 to around 1120 by a sequence of 7 or 8 games where only 1 didn't have a ragefeeder, ragequitter/afker, or DC from level 1. (Note that I'm not sitting around pissing people off to make them rage, I just get paired with people that love to sit around and yell at whoever the first death is on the team, or the jungler that didn't gank by 4:30, etc)

Still, of course, I believe that I could do better to raise my elo in games that don't have that issue, just noting that sometimes your luck just bests you, and when you get into low elo, it's much more challenging to carry a team than if you didn't have such bad luck in the beginning of your ranked play. (Anyone that was never forced to go below 1200 via leavers/intentional feeders DOESN'T KNOW what they're suggesting when they say you can usually carry. Because "usual" down there is to have a leaver, afker, ragefeeder, troll(revive/smite and no one was willing to queue dodge for an auto-loss -- has happened twice to me, one revive/smite, one revive/teleport), and those people that go wandering solo into the jungle(ours or theirs) at 50+ minutes while we're defending/buying)


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Velguarder

Member

03-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzsibox View Post
Just reset elo.
Dont let soloranked under 500 games (normal+ranked thus far) .
Make tuts that do help like shurelia did with her zoning guide.
This statement is the most ******ed thing I've heard anyone say. I played dota before it was Allstars, I've played starcraft BW for 10 years.

When I started LoL, I carried EVERY game to level 30, got to 1500 rating in 30 games. This would be unfair to experienced players from other games that are similar to this game.