the ELO system is completely F***ed

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PandaCodeRed

Senior Member

12-26-2010

the elo system works perfectly fine. I'm a mere 1500 player, my house mate just started playing ranked at 1200, I duod with him, I found I could carry about 4/5 games at the average of our two elos, which was around 1300. That small 200 elo difference plays a noticeable difference in ones ability to carry games. I have been as high as 1650, and I defiantly saw much better players than I currently am.

The past few days I have duo qued with people sub 1k, those games are even easier to carry with. I loose maybe 1 out of every 6 games and thats with bringing a low elo player up about 200-300 points.


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Preference One

Senior Member

12-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindEternities View Post
you do realize that hon uses the exact (well slightly modified) same system right?

and i don't think dota has a built in ranking system
did you read that before posting? Exact (different) same thing?


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Attero

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Senior Member

12-26-2010

ITT: People think that K/D/A is actually a relevant indicator of skill.

You can be 20/0 and still be the sole reason your team loses. Conversely, you can be 0/10/0 and be the sole reason your team wins.

Terrible idea, posted hundreds of times, etc.


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Basil van Yhun

Senior Member

12-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by darksinthe View Post
DON'T BASE A PLAYERS SCORE ON WINS AND LOSSES.

BASE A PLAYERS SCORE ON KILL-DEATH-ASSIST-HEAL-DEATH/TEAMDEATH RATIO.
So during one game Shen ults his teammates like 5 or more times. He will also initiate fights or help his carries to survive a fight leading again to his death. A Shen normally doesnt/shouldnt get any kills. He will get about 10-20 assists depending on the length of the game and some other factors. He will die about 5-10 times.
Assists can't be worth as much as kills because you can get them for hitting a champion just once.
Out of that scenario with your idea, Shen would get a low ELO-Rating. Do you think that's a fair system? I dont think so.
That's why your idea is bad. Even now many people dont like to play tank. With that it would become even worse.

They would have to change/add so many more parameters it would take forever to get a good system running. It's just not worth the effort.


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darksinthe

Member

12-26-2010

Yeah, I get your point, Basil. I do think though that the current rating system is not fit for this game, and they should create one that is a balance between individual performance and win/losses. Just basing the game on wins and losses completely destroys the ranking system. The BEST player could even fall victim in 5v5 solo queue alone to lose over and over and go down to under 1000 ELO due to sheer bad luck (and yes its possible to roll 1 on a dice 80/100 times, though unlikely) All I am saying is that W/L rating doesn't work well enough. Maybe they could make assists for tanks worth the same rating as kills for AD/AP classes. Base it on item/score ratio. Its not rocket science, really.


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BlindEternities

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Senior Member

12-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DezBryantROTY View Post
did you read that before posting? Exact (different) same thing?
you do realize that hon uses the same system with just some small differences right?

there, happy?


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Lulwy

Senior Member

12-26-2010

Elo has been used for god****ed near everything at some point or another, team game or no, and has worked satisfactorily.

Its far more likely that you belong at your Elo, or were matched up with people on your team who were showing promise up until your game so the system decided it should match them above their skill level. If they win, big points, if they lose small loss.


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Duskofdead

Senior Member

12-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulwy View Post
Elo has been used for god****ed near everything at some point or another, team game or no, and has worked satisfactorily.

Its far more likely that you belong at your Elo, or were matched up with people on your team who were showing promise up until your game so the system decided it should match them above their skill level. If they win, big points, if they lose small loss.
I honestly don't understand how people can think this makes any sense if ELO is measuring only win/loss and no level of individual performance at all.

If ELO is only win/loss then your ELO is more or less strictly a matter of who you are being given as teammates, there are hard limits on how much you can carry really terrible people, especially if there is more than one on your team.


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Westernflux

Member

12-26-2010

a system based on individual kdr to score wouldn't promote team play, on the contrary, people will play burst and work solely on ksing and survival. Selfish play would ruin gameplay even more than the occasional leaver.


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HTFU

Senior Member

12-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
I honestly don't understand how people can think this makes any sense if ELO is measuring only win/loss and no level of individual performance at all.

If ELO is only win/loss then your ELO is more or less strictly a matter of who you are being given as teammates, there are hard limits on how much you can carry really terrible people, especially if there is more than one on your team.
And most of the time your teammates are in fact the same skill level as you period. The thing a lot of people don't understand is that sometimes your tryharding, but the other team is tryharding better that doesn't mean that your teammates suck it's means that your team as a whole is getting outplayed. From my experiences people get bored so they try to new champs gimping themselves, they play when tired, angry, drunk, high and they gimp themselves. If any 1900+ plus player where to start from 1 level to 30 start ranked they would still end up 1900+ it's all player skill always is always will be you could invent a new system, but everyone has there peak like it not no matter how good you are theirs always someone better. And now for omg some shocking truth most high Elo players have one specific crutch hero that they're spectacular w/ and win most of there games playing that hero.