Need some help with Kog

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BiGfReAk1337

Member

02-23-2011

I just bought Kog and tried him on AD. I didnt like it and tried him on ap too. AP worked better but it was just a practise game and i dont know if i will fail in a normal game. I dont want to test it in normal and end up feeding. I think my teammates wont be happy.
So i decided to ask you guys what do you think about ap/ad and what runes and items you pick.
Does it make sense on a ap build to go AA, ROA, sorcerer shoes, rabadons, rylais and benshees? Do i still need AS when i go ap? Why?
My runes would be like mpen, life, cd

Or is ad still the better choise even though his speed bug was fixed?
Should i get as runes or is armor pen better?


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Teotlic

Senior Member

02-23-2011

I haven't settled on Runes yet..


However, I lean more towards an AP Kog than an AD.. just to abuse his ult. The problem with AP is that, generally speaking.. you're more item dependent. To get to a reliable amount of damage with AP Kog.. it takes a little longer, especially if you're building AA, which can be a hefty amount of early game gold. I typically build AA, Berserker Greaves, Nashor's, Deathcap... and then defensive items if needed. If I don't think defensive items are much of an issue, I'll get a Zhonya's after that. Alternatively, if you're having a good game.. you could run a Lichbane.. which works wonders when used with your W skill and high AP.. tears people apart.

So, I basically run a AS/AP. Sometimes I'll get Madreds instead of Nashor's.. but I like the mana regen Nashor's and AA gives me. An AP build with Madreds and Lichbane is insanely expensive.. but you pretty much tear faces off within just a few seconds.. like a Kassadin except at longer range and take down tanks just as easily.

Edit: Rylai's is also a good choice.. the slow works well if you're having issues aiming your ult. The extra health is a nice bonus as well.


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BiGfReAk1337

Member

02-23-2011

bump


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

02-24-2011

AS/MPen/AP hybrid, in my experience, is the most beneficial build for Kog'Maw.

My core build on him is Doran's Ring, Madred's Bloodrazor, Sorc Shoes, and Nashor's Tooth. From there, you can stack more AS with on-hit effects, such as Wit's End, Frozen Mallet. Haunting Guise is also a powerful item on him.

MPen is often overlooked on Kog'Maw, when it is ultimately the most effective means of boosting his damage output. You rely heavily on magic damage that either has poor AP ratios (W, and R), or high base damage on a long cooldown (Q, and E). Also, your ultimate gets a 150% modifier against enemy champions - this does NOT apply to the AP boosted damage. As such, by building straight AP to 'abuse' his ultimate, you're wasting a lot of gold. MPen is hands down the most effective means to boost its damage output, and you'll see that after Sorc shoes, and perhaps Haunting Guise, it will begin to remove large chunks of HP from enemies.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

02-24-2011

Neither theory that you posted really works ideally.


AP is awful for boosting Koggie. It takes around 1400AP just to double the damage of his Ult which is a terrible waste of gold. (400 rank 3 ult vs champs at 0.3 ratio) His other powers are high cooldown/utility so AP isn't as useful.

So, magic penetration is the key...plus having enough mana to use your abilities often.

As the game progresses, you transition to an attack-speed build and use your high built-in damage (1.5 bloodrazors basically) and rangebooster to look for chances to melt enemies with your autoattack.

Take MP5 regen runes, preferably per level ones and magic penetration runes.

+ Mekis and 2 pots to start
-> Chalice (MR, solves mana issues)
+ boots
-> Sorc Shoes (large boost to your spell damage as you are focusing on Puke/Ult)

+ Recurve Bow
+ Recurve Bow #2 (boost AS as fast as possible)
-> Malady (20 magic dmg per hit, magic resist shred on hit, and even more AS. AP is bonus)
-> Bloodrazor (bunch of extra damage per hit plus AS and some armor.)

Whenever needed, toss in a Phage or Giants Belt, and both upgrade to a Frozen Mallet. This depends on if and when you need a Snare and/or survivability. Having some MR and Armor already makes the extra health even more valuable than it would on Trist for example.


Note: Bloodrazor synergizes nicely with kog. Just because he does 6% from a skill doesnt make the 4% from bloodrazor any better. However, it has the same mechanism and contributes further to Koggie being a high Health buster even when his Barrage is not active.


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Dechy

Junior Member

02-24-2011

I play Kog a decent amount since they destroyed Twitch, and I use almost the same build every single time... only thing that changes is order of getting the items.

Lots of tanky champions and I rush Bloodrazor, then Malady. Then it's a choice between Frozen Mallet if I feel too targeted or Void Staff seeing as I don't use MPen runes; I'm using 26% AS Runes + HP Quints.

Boots, I usually go with Zerker or Sorc, again depending on team composition. Lots of tanks I'll go Sorc to punch through MR faster.

Few or no real tanks, I go for Malady + Zerker asap, as with my runes I get over 1.2AS by level 4. Then Pickaxe, Bow & finish BR.

And as was mentioned, AP Kog is holy bad, try it with AI, even with a healthy 300AP, ult doesn't get that much more damage, 1 maybe 2% extra damage on Barrage & puke barely changes.

They need to boost his ratios a bit to give him more build options.


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Lanatir

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Junior Member

02-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Neither theory that you posted really works ideally.


AP is awful for boosting Koggie. It takes around 1400AP just to double the damage of his Ult which is a terrible waste of gold. (400 rank 3 ult vs champs at 0.3 ratio) His other powers are high cooldown/utility so AP isn't as useful.

So, magic penetration is the key...plus having enough mana to use your abilities often.

As the game progresses, you transition to an attack-speed build and use your high built-in damage (1.5 bloodrazors basically) and rangebooster to look for chances to melt enemies with your autoattack.

Take MP5 regen runes, preferably per level ones and magic penetration runes.

+ Mekis and 2 pots to start
-> Chalice (MR, solves mana issues)
+ boots
-> Sorc Shoes (large boost to your spell damage as you are focusing on Puke/Ult)

+ Recurve Bow
+ Recurve Bow #2 (boost AS as fast as possible)
-> Malady (20 magic dmg per hit, magic resist shred on hit, and even more AS. AP is bonus)
-> Bloodrazor (bunch of extra damage per hit plus AS and some armor.)

Whenever needed, toss in a Phage or Giants Belt, and both upgrade to a Frozen Mallet. This depends on if and when you need a Snare and/or survivability. Having some MR and Armor already makes the extra health even more valuable than it would on Trist for example.


Note: Bloodrazor synergizes nicely with kog. Just because he does 6% from a skill doesnt make the 4% from bloodrazor any better. However, it has the same mechanism and contributes further to Koggie being a high Health buster even when his Barrage is not active.
Just a quick correction, Malady does not build from the Recurve Bow. I recall reading a guide on either leaguecraft or mobafire that had the same mistake in it.

Personally, I have been building towards AS first and then AP lately, but I haven't settled on a general build pattern. Madreds and Sorc Boots are almost always part of it, but the rest of my choices are usually from this list (sort of in the order of likeliness):
Malady
Nashors
Deathcap
Frozen Mallet
Gunblade
Wits End

My runes are currently MPen, MP/5 per level, CDR and HP quints. May end up changing up the runes for a stronger early game, but haven't gotten to experimenting with those (due to IP cost of course).