Duo Queue is the source of the Elo Hell effect

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hookrotdevour

Senior Member

12-21-2010

It was a 30 minute game.

Ur team comp has a ****astic late game what did u expect


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buckyou

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Member

12-21-2010

Me and a friend were roughly 1550 both and got matched two consecutive times in ranked(duo) with 2000-ish players, including xpecial, saintvicious, and liezryou.. just this morning


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NoOtherDestiny

Senior Member

12-21-2010

I agree. Either remove duo queue from solo ranked or place limits on them so they don't throw out the matchmaking balance.


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Morzas

Senior Member

12-21-2010

I don't think that many of us players can make objective judgments about these sorts of things. We tend to get emotional when we lose games and try to find scapegoats.


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Knyaz

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alame View Post
Kindly examine the attached screenshot. (Yes, I know I've lost a lot of elo. I don't want to hear it.)

I'm sure you could guess this without me saying so, but Dr. Mundo and Evelyn were a duo queue.

Now, I have no doubt that those players are in the elo where they belong. (okay, I lied. They aren't. But that's not the point.) My issue here is the Urgot. 1700 ranked player being matched up with 1500s. That kind of elo discrepancy is unacceptable. This is not the result of a well-considered and well-balanced matchmaking system.

The highest elo on our team (1603. approx 1615 pre-loss) compared with their lowest on thiers (1481. approx 1469 pre-win) yields a deviation of 146 points. That's pushing it.

The highest elo on their team (1733. approx 1718 pre-win) compared with their lowest on ours (1509. approx 1521 pre-loss) yields a deviation of 212 points. That's absurd.

Teams of similar skill should have a deviation of ~50 points of each other. In my experience, everyone who have similar skill levels have true elos within 50 points of each other. So, using that as a benchmark, Urgot and Mundo had 4 times the standard skill deviation.

So our poor matchmaking system gets this duo queue. The system struggles to find 'even' teams. It finds two sets of 5 with similar average elos, pats itself on the back, and starts champion select.

In theory, that works. There are 3 'balancing elements' present within this game.

1. The Carry Effect: Urgot is considered skilled enough to carry his two high-1400 teammates. This effect was somewhat present.

2. The Duo Queue Effect: Evelyn and Mundo are assumed to have superior teamwork because they are a pair. They do have superior teamwork, in feeding. This element is not present.

3. The Feeder Effect: Amumu, as the 'least skilled' player in the game, is assumed to feed. Balancing out Urgot's 'high skill'. Amumu played very cautiously throughout the game. This effect was not present.

So duo queue has forced Matchmaking to accept wide elo discrepancies to match the pair together. That's okay, the 3 balancing elements are there! Jokes, 1/3.

I'm not here to tell you to remove duo queue, I'm not here to say your matchmaking is terrible. But in the pursuit of allowing friends to play together, you have given yourselves a challenge that you are unable to overcome. If two people with a medium to large elo difference queue together, the entire equilibrium of matchmaking goes to ****.

I propose a simple solution. Duo queue becomes limited to two summoners who's difference in solo queue elo is no more that 75 points. Simple, easy, effective.
Ok i disagree with your solution but i wont down vote because you are right on the problem.


Duo que's completely warp the system. Whenever i play a game that is a stomp for either side it has a duo in it. The duo will either be 2 mates that know each others play style well and dominate... OR they will just be to players who are below the skill level of everyone else , who decided to que together. They will usually feed and ruin the game for everyone.



I want to see Duo ques removed altogether in ranked.


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AnyOtherEnemy

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Alame,

Instead, how about simply increasing the queue times for people who duo queue with large deviations in rating? So for example, in your situation, the duo queue Eve and Mundo don't get matched against a 1700 + a bunch of lower guys. Instead, the have to sit in queue until another pair with similar Elo pairing is available to play against them. This will force them to wait longer in the hopes of not making bad matches like yours. Thus, they don't lose the opportunity to queue together just because they have an elo difference, but they are encouraged to be of similar elo when duo queueing else they have to wait a long time.


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jedidioh

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Im not against on duo queue but i think its a bit unfair to place their elo at the solo queue bracket.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

12-21-2010

Eh, that could fragment who can play with who too much.


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Knyaz

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by national View Post
Alame,

Instead, how about simply increasing the queue times for people who duo queue with large deviations in rating? So for example, in your situation, the duo queue Eve and Mundo don't get matched against a 1700 + a bunch of lower guys. Instead, the have to sit in queue until another pair with similar Elo pairing is available to play against them. This will force them to wait longer in the hopes of not making bad matches like yours. Thus, they don't lose the opportunity to queue together just because they have an elo difference, but they are encouraged to be of similar elo when duo queueing else they have to wait a long time.
This is another fundamental flaw with MM.



Quality vs Quantity. Riot decided on Quantity. Meaning they prefer matches to come faster at the expense of more precise match making.

There is plenty of evidence of this. The other day i saw Hotshotgg matched with a bunch of lvl 22's. Those must have been some incredibly fantastic lvl 22's to have a normal elo as high as hes. I mean he was capped before they removed normal elo , how can that sort of match happen???

Its because the longer you sit in que , the wider the MM searches. So plenty of matches are flawed because of this. I for one would much rather wait in que and get a good match, as opposed to instant popping dud games.


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EbonyKnife

Senior Member

12-21-2010

Well, i personally penta queue from time to time and i have to say it has hilarious results.

In need of a little balancing? Probably.


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