stealth champ change suggestions

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Deinbeck

Senior Member

12-26-2009

Stealth in this game seems sort of broken to me. Not OP, not UP, just not working the way it should.

Eve is too reliant on stealth. Shaco doesn't even need stealth, and Twitch is does fantastic damage even without the stealth.

Does Twitch need a stealth that he can keep up the majority of the game?

Should Eve become nearly useless when the other team spends 150 gold?

Does Shaco, who already has a very powerful escape ability, need the stealth effect attached to this ability?

He're what I propose:

First off, remove wards and Oracles from the game. It's a stupid system, and it isn't fun the way it functions now.

Evelynn: Shadow Walk lasts a maximum of 4 seconds maxed out. No stun effect on first attack. Longish cooldown, 20 seconds maybe? This would become both a skill to assassinate with, and an OMGRUN button giving Eve some survivability. This could become unbalanced with Ravage dmg spike, maybe the AP ratio would have to be adjusted for that ability. She could have her attack dmg upped and Ravage dmg lowered possibly.

Shaco: No stealth on his teleport. Fist attack after teleport crits. Instead of stealthing, he drops a clone near by that mirrors Shaco's actions and is uncontrollable. Clone would take normal damage, but do 0 damage to any target. Higher ranks of the spell would drop more clones. Clone would last for 3 seconds tops. The idea is that he would still maintain the advantage of confusion, but would not have an OH**** button that you have to spend almost 500 gold to negate. Clone having HP could be OP, if that doesn't work, give them 1 hp, any dmg would destroy them. Color them blue to team mates I guess to remove any confusion between port spell clones and ult clone.

Twitch: ....I'm up in the air with this guy. Without the stealth he's like a less awesome Tristiana. Maybe 10 seconds of stealth with a reasonable detection radius ( if you're within 500 - 600 range you'll see him. He still benefits from the attack speed, and the element of surprise, but he will no longer be able to walk right past you in a lane and set up the easy-mode ganks he can do presently. All of a sudden you have to be a little more strategic with how you position yourself.

Thoughts, comments?


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TheGenie

Senior Member

12-26-2009

Stealth is a good mechanic to have. Without Eve's long stealth period and stun, she's kinda useless seeing as how spike does lame damage and you have to be close to hit champs with. For Shaco, stealth is a sneaky way to kill people and is pretty fun though i have never used him before. For twitch....moving along. oracles and wards are both items to counter stealth. So instead of removing them AND making stealth uber lame, just keep em. Also, for Shaco's extra guy that takes a hit but cant dish it, kinda cheap? Tower diving and confusing people. Its kinda what his ult is good for. And Evelynn does not become nearly useless with other people having oracles. Either gank the guy with oracle, or get an oracle yourself kill his wards. you buy one, he buys one, fair?

Also, your statement about Evelynn becoming useless if the guy spends 150 gold is inconsistent. Buy using 150 gold, im assuming you mean getting a ward, which counters invisability and "makes her useless". But your suggestion are making her equally bad.


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Deinbeck

Senior Member

12-26-2009

You're assuming she's good now, which she isn't. My suggestion would make her a little more viable.

You really need to spend some time playing these guys to understand. Keep in mind I'm talking about average and up play, not scrub fest pick up games, although my suggestions are meant to address this issue as well, where these champs can totally dominate (Eve, Twitch, Shaco) and suck hard in skilled play (Eve).


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Pachirisu

Member

12-26-2009

It's hilarious that you mention Eve being viable yet you want to remove her stun. No amount of buffs would matter if you remove that stun.


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Pen15Mightier

Senior Member

12-26-2009

150g doesn't counter these champions...They just change lanes if stealth is that big a factor in their play (mostly Eve...Twitch doesn't really need it right away).

I'm playing Eve, bottom lane...you show up and I notice you have a ward. I wait until you drop it...and then I go to top next chance I get and swap lanes with whoever was there...congrats, you just wasted 150g on an item that only prevents me from ganking on 5% of the entire map...meanwhile I go top and Stealth destroy whoever is up there, ganking mid on my way...you lost 150g, and forced my hand into killing a couple of your friends...good job. By the time top gets a ward, your ward on bottom is now gone, I'm free to come down there and WTFPWN you because you forgot you didn't have the protection anymore...

Eve is only OP if you let her be. Oracle's is the only hard counter, and even still Eve moves fast enough at level 6 with her Ult that you can pop out of the bushes and hurry up and stun someone that they only have a second or two to stop you. If they don't, a well coordinated gank on your face occurs.

Your only option really is to tower hug...Even still, you'll get dived...


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Deinbeck

Senior Member

12-26-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen15Mightier View Post
150g doesn't counter these champions...They just change lanes if stealth is that big a factor in their play (mostly Eve...Twitch doesn't really need it right away).

I'm playing Eve, bottom lane...you show up and I notice you have a ward. I wait until you drop it...and then I go to top next chance I get and swap lanes with whoever was there...congrats, you just wasted 150g on an item that only prevents me from ganking on 5% of the entire map...meanwhile I go top and Stealth destroy whoever is up there, ganking mid on my way...you lost 150g, and forced my hand into killing a couple of your friends...good job. By the time top gets a ward, your ward on bottom is now gone, I'm free to come down there and WTFPWN you because you forgot you didn't have the protection anymore...

Eve is only OP if you let her be. Oracle's is the only hard counter, and even still Eve moves fast enough at level 6 with her Ult that you can pop out of the bushes and hurry up and stun someone that they only have a second or two to stop you. If they don't, a well coordinated gank on your face occurs.

Your only option really is to tower hug...Even still, you'll get dived...
The whole point being to make her more like a standard melee carry, and remove the necessity of wards and such. Like you said, even Oracles is a poor solution because she will be on top of you within a half a second. If you get rid of the stun, all of a sudden the other player has a hope of reacting if clense is down. She doesn`t need the stun, and with my stealth being 4 seconds of invincability basically, she would have a get out of jail free card, which is pretty powerful.


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Pray

Senior Member

12-26-2009

Gotta say the original poster has a great point. Wards and oracles are a stupid addition to the game. I hate them and that I must use them to be a top tier player. Ruins the spirit of the game for me.

Secondly, shaco doesn't need a freaking flash / stealth!!! On top of that an aoe fear. This character is SO STUPID.


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Disdasdefa

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Senior Member

12-26-2009

I concur with what the OP has said. Although i think the stun on Eve's invis should stay due to the fact that it only lasts 4 seconds. And maybe add a slight movement debuff on twitch's stealth


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Deinbeck

Senior Member

12-26-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disdasdefa View Post
I concur with what the OP has said. Although i think the stun on Eve's invis should stay due to the fact that it only lasts 4 seconds. And maybe add a slight movement debuff on twitch's stealth

I didn`t think of a movement debuff. That`s a good idea


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Pwndemonium

Member

12-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen15Mightier View Post
150g doesn't counter these champions...They just change lanes if stealth is that big a factor in their play (mostly Eve...Twitch doesn't really need it right away).

I'm playing Eve, bottom lane...you show up and I notice you have a ward. I wait until you drop it...and then I go to top next chance I get and swap lanes with whoever was there...congrats, you just wasted 150g on an item that only prevents me from ganking on 5% of the entire map...meanwhile I go top and Stealth destroy whoever is up there, ganking mid on my way...you lost 150g, and forced my hand into killing a couple of your friends...good job. By the time top gets a ward, your ward on bottom is now gone, I'm free to come down there and WTFPWN you because you forgot you didn't have the protection anymore...

Eve is only OP if you let her be. Oracle's is the only hard counter, and even still Eve moves fast enough at level 6 with her Ult that you can pop out of the bushes and hurry up and stun someone that they only have a second or two to stop you. If they don't, a well coordinated gank on your face occurs.

Your only option really is to tower hug...Even still, you'll get dived...
Congratulations you have reached level 2

Briefing

2 Champions place 2 wards on different lanes. You saw one being planted, the other one may be hinted at by a teammate.

On a serious note, I'd even unstealth and lane against Ashe then to get at least some gold from minions (or jungling)... still an anfavourable situation to make Eve competitive. Most notably when it happens at levels 5-9 which are quite vital for her. Afterwards you face Oracle anyway, and even though it's possible to sneak around it, you still have issues damaging the target then. The ultimate speed isn't enough to surprise a competent player, and flashing to close the gap is just a waste of survivability.

Stealth is annoying, but so are the counters. As it's a big fat silence to one ability. Not dying is awesome, but not killing anything is terrible.
Basically every champion doesn't die then if he sits at the spawn.