is warmogs ever usful?

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BeyondGodlike

Senior Member

12-19-2010

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Originally Posted by eeri View Post
Yes, because a tank will NEVER buy ANYTHING with magic resist...
Assuming you got warmogs first you wont have much magic resist... mbr is great on kog and ww it synergizes well with their skills.. that 80 magic damage is under rated when it helps kog chew you in 6 seconds. of course i agree its all situational based on their team comp and all but early game they wont have anything other then mercs to deal with mbr.


I would say warmogs is a great item that fits in after BVeil and Randuins/Frozen Heart. The bonus effects outweigh the extra hp. especially randuins.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

12-19-2010

I think i pretty clearly stated that WM is not the end all be all and that other things need to be considered besides pure EHP when buying it...but this idea that its a pure peice of $#!+ has got to stop. It is what it is...the single best item in almost all fathomable situations for buidling pure EHP in the game. This is true at almost any point in the game with most champs no matter how much AR/MR you have. The only time it is outperformed is when the enemy teams damage is incredibly scewed one way or the other...or if you already have a **** load of HP from some other sources.

That being said...as i posted in the thread with my graph...it provides very little beyond that EHP, and because of that other items have their appeal for many champions. It is also costly as was recently mentioned, but because it is much easlier to farm now, you can afford to grab it later than you use to and still benifit tremendously from the EHP it provides.

The whole idea that its a situation item is just plain silly. Every freaking item in the game is situational!!! If you havnt figured this out and still stick the build order phreak mentioned in his spotlight which is now 4 patches old...you deserve to lose.

Fianl comment...its the best "single item" in the game on just about all champs for adding pure survivability...its great on others due to passive gains through skills...its very strong against more balanced teams...but it can easily take a back seat to other items that offer more non-EHP related gains. It all depends on what you got, and what the other teams got. Learn to adapt to the situation, and use good information/math to help you make better decisions FOR YOURSELF!


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Cenerae

Senior Member

12-19-2010

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Originally Posted by gap81 View Post
Its much less rare than you think. Looking back at my match history at the damage revieved, its alomst always withn a 60/40 split in my experince. That is close enough to justify my numbers. It rarely goes out to an 80/20 slit or worse, which is roughly the point the other items i mentione become better options...but its easy enough to figure out the games where this is likely to happen as soon as you begin loading the game and can see who your up against.
Depends on what champ you're playing really. If I play a ranged carry, my damage taken tends to be primarily magical damage since I don't draw much minion aggro and in teamfights spells will be my main worry. If I play a tank or melee dps I'll see a lot more physical damage taken due to minion aggro from harrassment, or perhaps tower hits. Most of that isn't going to factor in to a teamfight (the tower hits might, but minion aggro probably won't), but it will still show on the stats.

One glance at my match history shows that only a couple of my games were actually close to the 50/50 mark (one actually being right about there), with a general skewing toward magic damage taken. Then again, most of my last 10 games played have been with supports and casters, so take that as you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap81 View Post
This is really subjective if not all together fallacious. The spell block on BV is certainly a great bonus vs many teams, but its not like they wont have somene who can drop it with a low protiorty spell before they attack you. Also, if you have proper CC and intiatior/tanks...its completely moot to begin with. You shoudlnt be able to be focues by CC if your team is playing proper roles with you as a teams carry.
But the fact remains that even if they use a low priority spell to strip your banshee's, that's still damage blocked that you would have otherwise taken. Like Ashe's Volley for example. That could work out to be a decent number blocked depending on her farm, then you factor in the HP on the item (less, since the nerf of course) and MR as well. And then there's the times when it stops that CC from hitting you and you get a kill or escape safely, which Warmogs can't do for you. The Catalyst component is also an amazing item to have for the early and mid game, which is another small point in it's favor (regrowth pendants and a giant belt don't really compare to Catalyst, methinks).

'course then there's times when your Veil is knocked away by a Soraka's Starcall, but more often than not it's going to stop -something- that does a credible amount of damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap81 View Post
In my experince, GA's beneift is utterly worthless. It makes you die, then get focused down by CC as soon as you rez. I have almsot never seen it actual work in a manne rthat the person who dies with it actual gest away after they rez or even is able to live long enough to score a kill before getting focused to death. Maybe im just unucky, but i never see it happen...on myself or anyone else who ever buys it. Not saying it cant happen...i just dont see it happen is all.
It depends on your team. If they all run off and leave you to die, then yeah you're pretty much screwed. If you got picked off by an assassin champ, he's not going to stand there exposed in the open after making his kill to wait for you to pop back up, because he's going to get focused and killed before you rez most likely. In a co-ordinated team, GA is actually quite a nice luxury option, though it does depend on your playstyle, of course. I wasn't trying to say that it's necessarily a good option in general, but it does have some good uses to it.

edit - In response to your most recent post, I do agree that Warmogs does have a bad rep, but that's soley due to idiots that rush it as their first item on 'tanks' who then proceed to be completely useless for the entire game because they wasted so much gold on just raw health. I just consider it a very niche item for late game use only, rather than something to be gotten earlier. Most of the other tanking items offer much needed utility, whether it's from auras, actives, CDR, or just being strong at one type of defence.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

12-19-2010

Quote:
But the fact remains that even if they use a low priority spell to strip your banshee's, that's still damage blocked that you would have otherwise taken.
The amout of damage stripped in this fashion would likely be very negligible...even if you got the BV at an incredibly early point in the game. I'd be willing to bet that the amount of Hp5 you regen from WM would always...Always....ALWAYS...outweigh the amount of damage stripped in this way. I cant really prove it, but neither can you. Just my best guess from my personal experience in the game.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

12-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap81 View Post
The amout of damage stripped in this fashion would likely be very negligible...even if you got the BV at an incredibly early point in the game. I'd be willing to bet that the amount of Hp5 you regen from WM would always...Always....ALWAYS...outweigh the amount of damage stripped in this way. I cant really prove it, but neither can you. Just my best guess from my personal experience in the game.
Depends on what stripped it, like I say. And it also depends on how long your team stands there poking the other team before the fight begins. If your shield is stripped right before that Pantheon and Akali pop out of the brush and start comboing you, then Warmog's regen isn't going to help you much. But if you spend 5 minutes poking one another because both teams are too afraid to initiate for some reason, then the regen's going to be immensly more valuable.

Given I don't subscribe to the 'sit there for 5 minutes and poke' scenario because it's a waste of time for both teams (unless one team is pushing another lane and just stalling of course), I guess I may be a little biased (since I tend to be the one going off to push another lane in these cases).

Incidentally, the amount of damage blocked by the Banshee's is going to increase as the game drags on. Warmog's regen flatlines after you finish farming it and it doesn't scale any further. Potentially, BV can be far better if someone manages to waste a strong nuke on it. Not that it happens very often but hey, that once in a blue moon occurance when your veil refreshes right as that farmed Veigar uses his ult...


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BeyondGodlike

Senior Member

12-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap81 View Post
The amout of damage stripped in this fashion would likely be very negligible...even if you got the BV at an incredibly early point in the game. I'd be willing to bet that the amount of Hp5 you regen from WM would always...Always....ALWAYS...outweigh the amount of damage stripped in this way. I cant really prove it, but neither can you. Just my best guess from my personal experience in the game.
ignite negates the usefulness when you fight and its always the first thing they drop if youre the tank


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

12-19-2010

Anyone targeting you with their Ult/Super nuke while BV is still up deserves to lose the game in the first place. I sure it happens from time to toime...but it has what a 30 sec CD? Its just not going to be active enough to make that big a difference imo. Ecspecially with any team thats intellegent enough to strip it with "star call" or an equivilent before the real fight begins.

Im sure it could happen, and perhaps the triple "always" was a bit overboard on the hyperbole...but thats my story and im stickin too it.


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MemoryLapse

Senior Member

12-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Fifthdawn View Post
I always get Warmog as first item. HP gives the highest EHP early game and Warmog is NECESSARY to have the highest EHP possible late game and if you don't get it early-mid game, it becomes hard to build the stacks late game.

Plus warmog is extremely useful on tanks who already have resistance or mitagation built into their skills. Tanks such as Rammus or Gragas.
Agreed. Let the sheeple who read guides telling them Warmogs is inefficient stay in the dark.


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Bamberger

Senior Member

12-21-2010

they rape with cho gath i put them on and by end game i have 5k+ hp