Advice for Laning Beefy Gragas

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Grovel

Senior Member

11-25-2010

I usually play AP Gragas who has no problem holding down a lane and farming his fat a$$ off, but I'm curious if there's an optimal way to lane the tanky version.

I've been using my generic hybrid Masteries and AP rune page (Mpen + MP5 Seals and CDR Glyphs).

I start with Doran's Shield, rush Catalyst. As far as skills, I prioritize Body Slam and Drunken Rage, taking just 1 point in Barrel Roll to farm a creep and fake zone a bit.

Do you do anything different? Put any more points into Barrel Roll for better farm? Get overly aggressive with Drunken Rage up? Harass with your Ult even if it wont net a kill?

Feels like if I don't start strong I can't make up ground later, unlike AP Gragas. If my lane partner can't put pressure on the other team I just turn into a fat mess sitting on the tower. I've had great games as tank Gragas, but mostly because my teammates kept the opponent on their heels. When we get out played early, it gets ugly.


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viscrom

Senior Member

11-25-2010

This seems more like a I'm a melee who isn't very tanky and I need help in a lane when my partner is playing too passive/terrible and my opponents aren't total garbage.

There's really 2 possible options:

1. Communicate a bit with your lane partner and let him know what might happen in the future to setup a kill.
2. Play super cautious, get almost no farm and let the enemy lane walk all over you resulting in them having free farm.

#1 is fine because Gragas while not very tanky early on can actually do pretty reasonable damage with just slam/drunken whacks. You can burst enough damage to let the enemy know that you're capable of maybe killing them if they extend too far. All it takes is a few slam harasses and taking them down from 100% to 40-50% to change their attitude in the lane.

#2 sucks because it's the worst possible situation you can be in early game. Just get better at last hitting under pressure and know your limitations. Don't get too frustrated either because that's only going to get you killed.

I wouldn't get barrel in hopes to scare them. If anything 1 point for last hits only (or a once in blue moon kill shot on a hero) but I would make this decision at level 3 or 4 at the latest.

I also wouldn't use your ult for last hitting/harass. If they are last hitting a lot and you're not then it's likely the lane will be pushed to your tower. All it takes is a good ult/slam and your lane partner not being 100% brain dead to net a kill with the assistance of the tower. There's some exceptions (hero dependent) but a good ult at level 6 usually results in at least 1 kill. You could also ask mid to come down and gank them too if the lane is pushed towards your tower... then you have a bit of free farm.


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Kvoth3

Senior Member

11-25-2010

Use body slam to last-hit, and target your slam so that you only hit the one(s) you want. Aim for the side of the minion, not dead center, and you can hit that edge minion only and for full damage, easily getting a kill on it.


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A Naked Man

Junior Member

11-25-2010

Hard to really say, I've had many a good games tanking with grag and being quite strong early on to all the way through but if the other team is dominating too much else where its too hard to make up for it yourself. But I'd say that goes for any champ/match.

I've had VERY few of those games where I carry a comeback as Tank grag. Even with a high K/D ratio its hard but I have much more matches where im not a worthless fat ass and Im either dominating, or extremely helpful to my team so whatever, i like the build.

But to answer some of your questions I personally don't ever put a point in barrel roll till everything else is maxed and I have to. I start 1 point in Body Slam then go Drunken Rage as quick as possible the theory being by lvl 3 its a B.F Sword for free with 18% dmg reduction, becoming pretty potent with slowing from a Body Slam.

I used to not but now I always do go Doran's shield with a pot sometimes, depends on if i get a solo lane. If solo laning cause we have a jungler say I usually wait till i have a lvl or 2 on my opponents and tower hug till then. Once there I assess whether or not i can begin the above mentioned body slam harassment. Sometimes I even begin harassing at the jump cause they are greedy or aggressive or whatever, but overall open to the Body Slams. Again, you can do some good dmg with Drunken rage and body slam and combined with the lvl advantage, you should usually be able to start pushing the lane back.

If you have a partner its same strat as above just right away harass. If you cant then tower hug and harass.

As far as items I generally go all defensive for early and mid game and depending on how much money i have when I base will greatly make up what my build will be. If I have enough first time basing i will skip boots and get either a sunfire or FoN and dash my way back to a lane and get boots next trip. The boots I do eventually get will either be ninja's or mercs depending on who i gotta worry about. If i dont have enough cash for the major items first, then I will get boots, and either a piece of the sunfire or a piece of the FoN. If I go with a piece of the sunfire and later cant really afford to get it, but can afford the Wardens mail i get that. Then next again depends on how much I got, if I have enough and need MR, go for FoN if not enough for THAT, then go for a spirit visage. Pretty much continue this with adaptation till the Late game THEN I might start building a Lich Bane or a Tiamat. Again depends on the sit.

Basically to sum it up Ive been pretty successful either focusing on straight armor, MR, or HR. Of course going the HR route usually also has either armor or MR as a side focus, but again, assess the situation. Hardly ever do a build where I get items that increase magic or physical dmg early or mid game.

Hope that helps


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Cenerae

Senior Member

11-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvoth3 View Post
Use body slam to last-hit, and target your slam so that you only hit the one(s) you want. Aim for the side of the minion, not dead center, and you can hit that edge minion only and for full damage, easily getting a kill on it.
^ This.

Also, don't level barrel until last unless you're going AP Gragas. It costs too much mana to be throwing around. Even 1 rank in it. There is no point.

You basically body slam to farm and if you see a good clear shot, use it to harrass and follow up with autoattacks too.


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ibeslummin

Junior Member

11-26-2010

Tank Grag is one of the best early game laners in LoL. I play Gragas both tank and AP and I am actually better at laning with tank mode. In 1500+ elo solo ranked games I have denied experience to some of the better solo laning heroes in the game such as morde, MF, and morgana.

Get body slam one level, then max drink putting other levels in slam and not worrying about casks at all (there are reasons to get one level at 8 but not early laning). Buy an HP pot and a doran's shield.

I think Grag does best in the side solo lane. The key is aggression. Grag has some of the strongest combat stats at level one and Slam is one of the hardest hitting level one spells in the game on a solo target, and it comes with a good slow. In addition, Grag has great natural regen especially when maxing drink because of his passive (slam should be spammed when you have plenty of spare mana and are missing health so that your passive kicks in). Good slow and damage spell on low CD + some of the best combat stats (both level 1 and afterwards with W on) + some of the best health and mana regen is a truly killer combo.

Use the brush obsessively. Run at the enemy. If they dive for cover in their creeps to avoid the slam, relentlessly chase and slam them as soon as they leave cover of the creeps. If they try to stay and fight in a positing where their creeps will help but yours won't, against many heroes when you have your W active you should still be able to out-damage them even with their creeps, but judgment is needed.

Typically against any ranged hero, you should be enough better in a fight that their creeps are no cover. They should not be able to constantly kite you through creeps without taking melee hits from you, and as soon as they leave creeps they get a body slam (and more chasing) from you. After you play out this song and dance a bit, their only option when you get aggressive will be to run back away from the creeps. Once this starts to happen you should be able to deny them experience and gold. Never push.

This strategy also works against many melee heroes but you have to be more careful as you can't often fight them in the middle of their creeps. If they are a strong melee hero, usually the best strategy is to take pot shots whenever possible (mostly slam-and-run plus melee hits when they come in to last hit) but to focus on creeping. Try to fight them to a draw and then use your higher regen to gain a health advantage so that you can really turn on the aggression.

Grag is also great in a duo lane, especially when you are with a partner who fits in to your aggressive style. The strategy is pretty much the same as above, although things obviously get more complicated. Many times when up against a strong and durable combo it is better to save the aggression early and wait until level 3 or 5 to turn up the heat. If you are with a stun or a good slow with ignite or exhaust you should be able to get a kill on any softish hero (and often through flash if they are pushing) before 6. If they are not running back in fear you are doing something wrong. Talk to and coordinate with your ally. Use the brush.

If your ally is only last hitting and not willing to support you, politely talk to them. If that does not work, focus on last hitting defensively. One of the main reasons to pick tank gragas over other tanks is his laning domination, so if you are with a passive and uncooperative ally you are wasting one of his biggest strengths.


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ibeslummin

Junior Member

11-26-2010

bump