[Guide] Katarina - Build/Tactics Top Tier

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Furor

Senior Member

12-23-2009

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it does more damage per cast, but bb gets in 2-3 casts by the time shunpo c/d is off which in the long run = more damage
I don't think you know how to read. There exists about 20 seconds of the game where you either have Shunpo or BB. If you honestly think there's an advantage over that period of time, don't bother responding. And no, you can't get 2-3 BBs at lvl 1 vs. Shunpo. That's just ridiculous.

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the second you deal damage to the enemy hero, all the creeps within an aoe (which will usually be the ranged creeps ALL THE TIME will target you, you shunpo in at level 1 and do 50 dmg, then the ranged creeps hit you for like 100 + the damage the enemy heroes can do to you..BB is much better to get first
Holy ****, maybe that's why you don't Shunpo on someone in the middle of their minions. Do you see me suggesting to do that anywhere? Do you see me suggesting to harass with Shunpo at lvl 1? How about you read the full ****ing guide before posting bull**** again. It's irritating just how ignorant you are.

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reading this just made me laugh, how you dont understand it is beyond me, go to link i provided and ctrl + f dodge to see how dodge is calculated

as i said before, its pretty useless to stack it because of KI
First off, KI + Shunpo dodge bonus is additive, not multiplicative. Even the tooltip suggests it is additive: "increases dodge by" is a red flag for "add". If you didn't know that about basic mathematics written in English form, then you sir deserve a dunce-cap.

Second, you did not provide a link anywhere. Nor would it refute anything I've said.

Finally, to end this portion of me destroying you, I have tons of in-game experience to verify that KI+Shunpo dodge is additive, because quite literally at lvl 18, nobody can hit you for the 3 seconds it's up. Just a string of dodges. I've survived many encounters that way.

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yeah..your passive rapes c/d reduction when you are owning and your lotus can kill 3 people at a time constantly, but in a game like that you dont really need anything..

c/d helps a lot more then dodge when you need to chase or when its a pretty even game, or when people are smart and run or stop your lotus
It just so happens I'm owning just about every game I play. So, of course, I play to my advantages. If you're suggesting that kills and assists are hard to come by, then I'll kindly refer the rest of these comments to you being a scrub.

Additionally, let me reiterate: cool-down reduction does not help in any appreciable way compared to the build and strategies I've suggested in this thread.

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i said i looked at the item build..
Saying you did doesn't make it true, nor does it disassociate the fact that you skipped over the wordy parts because apparently it's too hard to read.

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gg slow + tons of life + some shunpo dmg = wasted? interesting..
It's not as if just about every champion has a slow or stun of some sort, right? And again, you're favoring an item that costs over 3k gold vs. an item that costs 2.3k and results in damage that doesn't even give the other team a chance to react.
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and void staff does? so does that amazing heart of gold..oh i know! warmogs stops people from messing with your ulti..oh wait.....
You didn't get the implication. I know, it's hard. It's so hard. Here, caps just for you: RYLAI'S DOES NOTHING TO INCREASE THE DAMAGE OF DEATH LOTUS (plus if anything, makes it way more obvious when you're ulting). On the other hand, Void Staff effects every ability but KI. Resulting in.. zomg more damage?! And then I save 800 gold, and then factor in Heart of Golds ticking for most of early/mid game, which easily puts me at enough to buy a Giant's Belt, which is ironically only about 100 less health than Rylai's gives. So.. all you have gotten out of that exchange is some ****py slow that just about any other champion can emulate. gg.
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(fluff? no..replace warmogs with rylais..you get close to the saame life plus a lot of extra **** for 500 less gold..or replace that void staff..or a bunch of things)
Warmog's nets you over 1k health and 60 health regen for almost the same price. And since when does Warmog's cost 3600 gold?

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your build hopes that you are fighting complete ******s who stand still while you ulti them and kill 2-3 of them so you can get your c/ds refreshed, and hope they dont..1) run out of ulti range or 2) cc you then rape you, what makes kat good / efficient, its highly/freely spammable fairly damaging spells, c/d reduction is a great bonus for her early game when you are just harassing, it helps you not be completely useless unless your ulti can kill (chasing etc)
Yeah bro, that's why I'm a top 20 player. I totally just **** all over nubs all day. If you read the guide, you'd know I was assuming even competition. But, you didn't. So what rank are you again?

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i wonder if you even know how magic penetration(%) works..i mean you have no clue how dodge works..you're laughable, not to mention ap = adds fair dmg = not wasted
I'm pretty sure the one here that has no clue what they're talking about is you. You talk a lot of ****, but provide no facts. AP = adds fair dmg? What's that supposed to mean? AP only adds damage to Death Lotus if you've gone majority AP, so if you had majority AD (as you've already said is superior, because it is) then the added AP only effects Shunpo. Death Lotus works as an either or, whichever is higher. It does not stack both AP and AD values. Figured you'd have realized this by now.

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slow on BB + shunpo + mass c/d reduc = amazing for chasing

slow on lotus = more daggers hit = more damage
All while your abilities deal less damage. More damage = no need to chase. If I decimate a team in 3 seconds of my ult, it makes the rest of the work easy. Or, I could simply get a Lizard Buff, or a Frost Mallet.

Again for Lotus: guarantee my build does more damage per second. Even if I were to get interrupted, I'd have already done more damage, which is already more useful than a ****py 15% slow.

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warmogs is ****ty and a lot worse then rylais unless you get it VERY early, or you are already owning face, if you get it early, where is the 'saved gold'..i see..there isnt any huh? if you get it when you are owning face..whats the point? you dont need it
It's impossible to continue an argument in this direction without seeing your item build. Post one and I'll pick it apart.

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Originally Posted by sAviOrZelda View Post
i didnt really want to bash your ideas, if it works for you then great
It also works for pretty much everyone else that has tried it. Gee, wonder how that's possible.

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but saying its 'top tier' when you dont even know how the basics of the game work is freaking ignorant and laughable
It's Top Tier because I AM Top Tier, scrub. I play the best this game currently has to offer. I rape face daily.

And again, let's see the proof that I don't know X about X basics of the game. Because as of yet, you haven't demonstrated anywhere I've been wrong.

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if it works then it works, but there are better options
Let's see it.

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i just pointed out the main points i felt like getting to..i could go into skill build order and a bunch of other stuff but it would probably overload your pretty little brain
Oh, I'm sure it would overload my pretty little brain. Right. Or maybe you're afraid I'd pick it apart like I've done to your posts already?

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for skill build BASICALLY what you need to know is...
lots of physical damage = level 1-2 BB = enough(early harass and last hitting creeps) and level KI + shunpo first

lots of magic dmg = level BB and shunpo first leaving KI for later
Again with this? I'm not going to repeat myself.

Oh, and learn how to ****ing respond to posts. Do you realize how annoying it is having to go through your bolded out **** garbage?


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Barotix

Senior Member

12-23-2009

What's your Opinion on Rylai's? Several kat's I know always get Rylai's. Usually going:
Dorans
2x HoG
Boots
B.F. Swords
Rylais

And deviating as required.


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Furor

Senior Member

12-23-2009

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Originally Posted by Charmicarmicarmicat View Post
Furor, ever considered flash? Considering that cleanse has lost it's immunity, and heal only works so much with high health, I thought about using flash not only as means of escape, but also offensively.
You can try it. But I favor Improved Rally or Heal because both allow you to stay in a fight and finish up. Rally is great because it also increases your magic damage when improved.. so 20% on 200 damage/tick ult modifies it to 240 damage/tick, or kind of like adding a 60 Attack Damage item. Just as an example.

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For example, i have had some success with exhausting, shunpo to the target, and as they run, flash in front of them in their projected paths and start a lotus.
Well, problem is if you go too far forward, a smart player will just run the opposite direction. Only way that works out any better is if you pin them in somewhere, or in-between you and your team. I honestly feel that flash isn't needed for Kat, though. It seems superfluous. Shunpo isn't the best port, but it serves its purpose.

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Also, what is your thought on haunting guise?
I've tried it in a few of my builds. Of course, I value health quite high, so this diverts 1337 gold away from an item like Giant's Belt. But if you couple Guise with Sorc Boots + Runes, you can get around 55 magic pen. That's enough to bring just about any champion not taking MR items down to 0. And you can hit hard, but you do take a small hit in survivability because of the cost.

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Originally Posted by Barotix
What's your Opinion on Rylai's? Several kat's I know always get Rylai's.
Despite my recent railing against Rylai's in the last few messages, I don't think it's a terrible item. I just don't think it's as efficient as doing something else. You also have to take into account the amount of time it takes to farm an item. Getting Void Staff takes less time (all things being equal), meaning head to head, the person with the Void Staff will win, and be able to control the game sooner. Big ticket items are hard to count on, and the only item of Rylai's that's worth getting beforehand is Giant's Belt.

I've personally never seen a Rylai's build do that well. The slows seem inconsequential in almost any decent team setup, and you're spending more for what amounts to a small boost in Shunpo damage.


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FergoPwerUnit

Senior Member

12-24-2009

Great guide, oddly enough I used the majority of the items you suggest before-hand, but a couple of neat ideas (Never thought of IE for Attack Damage builds against a high disable team) that really helped my playing.

Quick question: When I go in for the 1-2-3 of BB - Shunpo - Ult, very often the ult will not fire until it's too late. Is there a delay between Shunpo and her Ult? Should I use the time after I shunpo to better position myself to block them to capitalize on her Ult's damage? And Is there any way to gauge what side of the player will Shunpo land you on?


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Furor

Senior Member

12-24-2009

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Originally Posted by FergoPwerUnit View Post
Quick question: When I go in for the 1-2-3 of BB - Shunpo - Ult, very often the ult will not fire until it's too late. Is there a delay between Shunpo and her Ult?
There is a slight delay because the Ult actually needs to calculate whether or not there are enemy champions in range. You cannot start channeling unless there are champs in its range. It is somewhat annoying, because sometimes it seems to take longer (this may be due to latency) to give you the "green light", and I've often gone in for the quick 1-2-3 punch and missed because of assuming that it would immediately be available.

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Should I use the time after I shunpo to better position myself to block them to capitalize on her Ult's damage?
Most of the time this is what I do, unless I know the fight will be somewhat stationary. If you notice, when I explain the Death Lotus kill in early game, I do suggest to move slightly and pin yourself just behind the player (in reference to where they will usually run to) which can be done before they have a chance to react. Then, ult, and you'll normally get near-max daggers up on them.

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And Is there any way to gauge what side of the player will Shunpo land you on?
Unfortunately, no. Also, since the latest patch, ports have been doing some funky things. Shunpo often will port you further than your target by some 200-300 distance in a random direction. This seems to usually happen in crowded areas (perhaps a bug from the system that coordinates end-point position relative to other units so that no two units are ever stacked on one another.. but it seems to be miscalculating by a great deal sometimes). Truth be told, I've gotten lost in team fights because of stuff like this before. Generally, though, you'll land to the side that's closest to your original point of attack.


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Quiksmith

Member

12-24-2009

I thought Shunpo "tried" to place u behind the target? I always try to shunpo when they are facing me in lane and i always seem to appear behind them....Then death lotus ect....By Tried i mean sometimes it throws you wacky places because there isnt enough room between creeps objects ect.... Is this not true?


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Furor

Senior Member

12-24-2009

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Originally Posted by Quiksmith View Post
I thought Shunpo "tried" to place u behind the target? I always try to shunpo when they are facing me in lane and i always seem to appear behind them....Then death lotus ect....By Tried i mean sometimes it throws you wacky places because there isnt enough room between creeps objects ect.... Is this not true?
Well, the tool-tip doesn't indicate such, and my in-game experience doesn't tell me that's true either, so most-likely not. It's usually a straight line from your previous location, to the nearest part of the enemy or friendly unit. So, the shortest distance between the two targets, basically.

The reason you appear behind those targets is likely because they are moving forward, and just fast enough that when you appear, if they had been standing still, you'd be in front of them, but because they were already moving forward and the system has already calculated where you will re-appear, the illusion is that you got placed behind them.


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taconight

Senior Member

12-24-2009

furor this is a great guide, that not only made kat enjoyable but helped me move into better games against better players. Prior to reading this i was usually going 6-4 in ten matches. lately i've been going 8-2, 9-1. Not just that, i've been playing alot smarter with all my champs as a result.

despite the bashing , this guide was a stepping stone in learning LoL at a more advanced level.

i realized no matter how good a guide you write or how well you write it. No matter how many people use it and help out. someone will come in here bashing it.

i look forward to more guides from you furor and thanks again for a great all around guide.


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Arafel

Friend of Urf

12-24-2009

I tried your HoG idea once after seeing it in one of the Champ suggestion threads, and I just didn't like the missing damage from buying two HoGs first. I usually start with a Regrowth Pendant instead, which gives plenty of lane survival and can build straight into the Warmog. Otherwise, glad to see I've been using the same final build as a pro. Fantastic tactics section in the guide--I've toyed around with the idea of wards before for juking but I never thought of placing them and immediately shunpoing for some reason.


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Raiqualar

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Recruiter

12-24-2009

Great guide, I've seen many kats that have followed similar to this and have done well, but I'd like to point out that dodge isn't additive.


http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ighlight=dodge