[Guide] Katarina - Build/Tactics Top Tier

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My name is Mark

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Senior Member

12-22-2009

Best Kat player EVAR


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Furor

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateku View Post
My question isn't really about the build, just about Death Lotus in general. How many daggers total does Kat throw over the full channeling time? Also, how many daggers per second? Sorry if this has been posted somewhere before or if it's common knowledge, I couldn't find it with search. Thanks.
I'd say it's about 2 to 2.5 per second. I don't know the concrete numbers; it's never something I worried about or particularly wanted to know. So you're looking at about 12 daggers over the course of the ult. Given late game items, you could do around 3k damage (to each target) provided you aren't interrupted and everyone stands there like a newb.


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robbins

Member

12-23-2009

what about Banshee's Veil?
Wouldn't it help not to get stunned every time you go into Death Lotus? In big team fights everyones Veil will probably be canceled with some cheap AOE spell, but I think it would be useful in other situations. Comments please!
Thanks for the guide! :]


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Furor

Senior Member

12-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbins View Post
what about Banshee's Veil?
Wouldn't it help not to get stunned every time you go into Death Lotus? In big team fights everyones Veil will probably be canceled with some cheap AOE spell, but I think it would be useful in other situations. Comments please!
Thanks for the guide! :]
Banshee's Veil can be pierced relatively easy by AoE spells, which means nobody even has to target you. In a team fight, you always Shunpo into a dangerous area with lots of spam going on, so chances are you're going to get hit by some kind of AoE spell during that time (this isn't even counting inconsequential single-target nukes), making the Veil pretty useless. Additionally, some of its cost is mana, and you have to ask whether the benefit will offset the cost sufficiently. It does have nice magic resist, and I have considered it, but I think you're better off going for Warmog's 99% of the time, since it takes up a survival slot.

I figure most players at my level won't get fooled by a Veil. They'll wimpy-nuke me to take it off, and then act as normal, meaning I've essentially wasted an item slot except for the MR. In other words, it's not an advantage against smart players, or even mindless stupid players with AoE. And 30 seconds is usually more than a team fight lasts, so you won't normally get a second shield up before the fight is over.


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Furor

Senior Member

12-23-2009

Added section on Juking and a Situational Build.


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IMSavior

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Senior Member

12-23-2009

ive only read item build, skill set up and runes

i have to say, i do not agree with most of it

skills:
1) bouncing blades at level 1 = a lot better, its has a lower c/d (at level 1 it does) plus its range harassing plus easy creep killing

shunpo makes it so you have to get right beside the enemy in the middle of their creeps..not THAT good early level

dodge runes / masteries also not that great, it doesnt stack 70+30=100. it stacks 70 + (30% of 30 = 9) = 79

so it isnt worth it, with KI and all giving you extremely high dodge already

the c/d reduction in utility tree is amazing

you can get like 15-20% c/d from masteries / runes

on kat that = freaking amazing

only really need 1 c/d item or golem buff to reach the 40% max..c/d on katarina = amazing

i dont feel like talking about item set up, but basically

too many people dont appreciate rylais on her, even if you go attack(which you should, cuz ap got nerfd to hell) it still adds shunpo dmg, gives you life and a slow(this slow is amazing, can add a lot of damage to your lotus)


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Furor

Senior Member

12-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by sAviOrZelda View Post
skills:
1) bouncing blades at level 1 = a lot better, its has a lower c/d (at level 1 it does) plus its range harassing plus easy creep killing
Shunpo is far better in a team fight at level 1, which is often what occurs in high level games. Furthermore, level 1 to 2 is about 20 seconds, or a minion wave. Your level of logic is disappointing, to say the least. Shunpo also deals more damage at level 1 than BB does, plus you can auto-attack your target, not that level 1 matters since besides team fights, nobody should be dying at level 1. And let me reiterate: Shunpo rapes BB at level 1.

Quote:
shunpo makes it so you have to get right beside the enemy in the middle of their creeps..not THAT good early level
That's because you use it to harass, and you don't stand there auto-attacking like a scrub. Shunpo harass lasts half a second.

Quote:
dodge runes / masteries also not that great, it doesnt stack 70+30=100. it stacks 70 + (30% of 30 = 9) = 79
No idea what the **** you're talking about here. Where are these numbers coming from? You get 6.7% from Yellow Dodge runes, and +2% from Mastery. That's 8.7% dodge not accounting anything else.

You'll have to explain further what you're talking about, because I'm sure everyone is wondering the same thing I am.

Quote:
so it isnt worth it, with KI and all giving you extremely high dodge already
As is explained in the build, Rank 1 KI is all that's needed until it is the last skill to rank up. Furthermore, KI dodge lasts 3 seconds. That's hardly anything at low level, since most fights last a ridiculously long time compared to end game where it really matters, and where you will have it regardless. Most champions don't rely on physical damage early in the game, as most threatening damage comes from abilities, which is almost always magic. If you're suggesting that you rank up KI before anything else.. I'll just have to laugh and call it a day.

Quote:
the c/d reduction in utility tree is amazing
You also get a lot of filler **** that does nothing for you. Additionally, CD doesn't matter much to Kat when her Passive enables her to instantly refresh her abilities on kills/assists, and in 3 kills refreshes her ult. Tell me exactly how much CD-reduction does when you're butt-raping the other team. I'll give you a little hint: nothing. Mediocrity at its finest.

Quote:
too many people dont appreciate rylais on her, even if you go attack(which you should, cuz ap got nerfd to hell) it still adds shunpo dmg, gives you life and a slow(this slow is amazing, can add a lot of damage to your lotus)
You didn't even look at the item build, so why are you making suggestions to me? Read the guide before you decide to pass out what amounts to ****ty judgment and poor build decisions.

80 AP that only affects Shunpo, and wasted gold. Additionally, it doesn't save you from having your ult simply disrupted. So while you've wasted tons of gold on fluff, my build capitalizes on all of what makes Katarina efficient. Out of my build, I have basically 250 Mana and 50 AP wasted, and get 40% Magic Penetration. You get a ****py 15% slow because Kat's ult is AoE, and 80 AP wasted, and you spent more gold to get it. That gold saved easily goes towards a Warmog's which grants even more survivability than Rylai's. So, gg.


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IMSavior

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Senior Member

12-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furor View Post
Shunpo is far better in a team fight at level 1, which is often what occurs in high level games. Furthermore, level 1 to 2 is about 20 seconds, or a minion wave. Your level of logic is disappointing, to say the least. Shunpo also deals more damage at level 1 than BB does, plus you can auto-attack your target, not that level 1 matters since besides team fights, nobody should be dying at level 1. And let me reiterate: Shunpo rapes BB at level 1.

it does more damage per cast, but bb gets in 2-3 casts by the time shunpo c/d is off which in the long run = more damage


That's because you use it to harass, and you don't stand there auto-attacking like a scrub. Shunpo harass lasts half a second.

the second you deal damage to the enemy hero, all the creeps within an aoe (which will usually be the ranged creeps ALL THE TIME will target you, you shunpo in at level 1 and do 50 dmg, then the ranged creeps hit you for like 100 + the damage the enemy heroes can do to you..BB is much better to get first

No idea what the **** you're talking about here. Where are these numbers coming from? You get 6.7% from Yellow Dodge runes, and +2% from Mastery. That's 8.7% dodge not accounting anything else.

You'll have to explain further what you're talking about, because I'm sure everyone is wondering the same thing I am.

reading this just made me laugh, how you dont understand it is beyond me, go to link i provided and ctrl + f dodge to see how dodge is calculated

as i said before, its pretty useless to stack it because of KI


As is explained in the build, Rank 1 KI is all that's needed until it is the last skill to rank up. Furthermore, KI dodge lasts 3 seconds. That's hardly anything at low level, since most fights last a ridiculously long time compared to end game where it really matters, and where you will have it regardless. Most champions don't rely on physical damage early in the game, as most threatening damage comes from abilities, which is almost always magic. If you're suggesting that you rank up KI before anything else.. I'll just have to laugh and call it a day.

You also get a lot of filler **** that does nothing for you. Additionally, CD doesn't matter much to Kat when her Passive enables her to instantly refresh her abilities on kills/assists, and in 3 kills refreshes her ult. Tell me exactly how much CD-reduction does when you're butt-raping the other team. I'll give you a little hint: nothing. Mediocrity at its finest.

yeah..your passive rapes c/d reduction when you are owning and your lotus can kill 3 people at a time constantly, but in a game like that you dont really need anything..

c/d helps a lot more then dodge when you need to chase or when its a pretty even game, or when people are smart and run or stop your lotus


You didn't even look at the item build, so why are you making suggestions to me? Read the guide before you decide to pass out what amounts to ****ty judgment and poor build decisions.

i said i looked at the item build..

80 AP that only affects Shunpo, and wasted gold.

gg slow + tons of life + some shunpo dmg = wasted? interesting..

Additionally, it doesn't save you from having your ult simply disrupted.

and void staff does? so does that amazing heart of gold..oh i know! warmogs stops people from messing with your ulti..oh wait.....


So while you've wasted tons of gold on fluff(fluff? no..replace warmogs with rylais..you get close to the saame life plus a lot of extra **** for 500 less gold..or replace that void staff..or a bunch of things),

my build capitalizes on all of what makes Katarina efficient.
your build hopes that you are fighting complete ******s who stand still while you ulti them and kill 2-3 of them so you can get your c/ds refreshed, and hope they dont..1) run out of ulti range or 2) cc you then rape you, what makes kat good / efficient, its highly/freely spammable fairly damaging spells, c/d reduction is a great bonus for her early game when you are just harassing, it helps you not be completely useless unless your ulti can kill (chasing etc)

Out of my build, I have basically 250 Mana and 50 AP wasted, and get 40% Magic Penetration.

i wonder if you even know how magic penetration(%) works..i mean you have no clue how dodge works..you're laughable
, not to mention ap = adds fair dmg = not wasted


You get a ****py 15% slow because Kat's ult is AoE, and 80 AP wasted, and you spent more gold to get it.

slow on BB + shunpo + mass c/d reduc = amazing for chasing

slow on lotus = more daggers hit = more damage


That gold saved easily goes towards a Warmog's which grants even more survivability than Rylai's. So, gg.

warmogs is ****ty and a lot worse then rylais unless you get it VERY early, or you are already owning face, if you get it early, where is the 'saved gold'..i see..there isnt any huh? if you get it when you are owning face..whats the point? you dont need it
i didnt really want to bash your ideas, if it works for you then great

but saying its 'top tier' when you dont even know how the basics of the game work is freaking ignorant and laughable

if it works then it works, but there are better options

i just pointed out the main points i felt like getting to..i could go into skill build order and a bunch of other stuff but it would probably overload your pretty little brain

for skill build BASICALLY what you need to know is...
lots of physical damage = level 1-2 BB = enough(early harass and last hitting creeps) and level KI + shunpo first

lots of magic dmg = level BB and shunpo first leaving KI for later


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Charmicarmicarmicat

Senior Member

12-23-2009

Furor plays a great kat for sure..

Furor, ever considered flash? Considering that cleanse has lost it's immunity, and heal only works so much with high health, I thought about using flash not only as means of escape, but also offensively.

For example, i have had some success with exhausting, shunpo to the target, and as they run, flash in front of them in their projected paths and start a lotus.

Most people do not see this coming and will not react in time.

Also, what is your thought on haunting guise?


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dreamenddischarger

Member

12-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by sAviOrZelda View Post
i didnt really want to bash your ideas, if it works for you then great

but saying its 'top tier' when you dont even know how the basics of the game work is freaking ignorant and laughable

if it works then it works, but there are better options

i just pointed out the main points i felt like getting to..i could go into skill build order and a bunch of other stuff but it would probably overload your pretty little brain

for skill build BASICALLY what you need to know is...
lots of physical damage = level 1-2 BB = enough(early harass and last hitting creeps) and level KI + shunpo first

lots of magic dmg = level BB and shunpo first leaving KI for later
you really really really don't know what you're talking about, just stop while you're behind.