[Guide] Ashe - The Team Queen

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MeditationError

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Senior Member

12-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
On Doran's Items:
The concept of doing less damage early game is NOT appealing to me. The reason for this is that you have really hindered your ability to push the creep waves back, which can quickly become an issue with Ashe, as a mage opponent can push you back hard.

Doran's Shield also doesn't help you with an AP champ at mid...that in and of itself is enough of a reason to choose the Blade. If you run up against Malzahar, you're choice of Shield just completely messed up your laning presence. Get yourself a Blade and dish out the damage...
In my experience, the regen on the shield more than makes up for the lack of damage. You might deal less damage per hit, but the health, armour and regen add up to a lot more surivivability and resilience, which in turn lets you be a lot more aggressive.

The critical point, though, is in a bad lane against an opponent with a decent harass. When you need the health, you don't want to wander away from your tower to attack minions, and you don't want to push the lane by auto-attacking minions, and even if you did auto-attack constantly, you'd still get less regen than a shield early game (you need 50dps for the sword to match the shields regen *while you are attacking something*.).

I really like how much easier last-hitting is with the blade, but I personally don't feel it's worth the risk of a bad lane turning awful.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeditationError View Post
In my experience, the regen on the shield more than makes up for the lack of damage. You might deal less damage per hit, but the health, armour and regen add up to a lot more surivivability and resilience, which in turn lets you be a lot more aggressive.

The critical point, though, is in a bad lane against an opponent with a decent harass. When you need the health, you don't want to wander away from your tower to attack minions, and you don't want to push the lane by auto-attacking minions, and even if you did auto-attack constantly, you'd still get less regen than a shield early game (you need 50dps for the sword to match the shields regen *while you are attacking something*.).

I really like how much easier last-hitting is with the blade, but I personally don't feel it's worth the risk of a bad lane turning awful.
You're completely right...

My issue with Shield is that when you are facing an AP champ, shield doesn't really help you that much, other than to regen any lost health. You would be better off dealing the extra damage to your opponent when they try to burst you down.

Either way you go, I guess it will work. I'll update the guide indicating the pros and cons for going Shield or Blade.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
I don't know about that, I've been going BF first for a long time now. Having less than 3k gold on my first trip back = failure.
Well, you might be staying in lane too long...

You could theoretically earn more by getting a Pickaxe early and making it much easier to last hit. Or maybe I need to develop that skill a bit more...

I usually find that I can get about 3k gold first trip back, but I have also found that by then, your lane is going to get ganked from the sides...in which case you only have your Doran's Blade to fight with...I think I would rather have that extra 25 damage and my Boots of Speed instead.

Plus, there really is something to be said for the option to go with Last Whisper in the event that you are losing the battle at middle and you start facing tanks who grabbed early armor. Otherwise, you are stuck with only Infinity Edge, which will barely scratch a good tank with a good armor rating.

Anyway, I do believe that it's up to the player to make their own decisions. I regularly IGNORE the advice of my very own guide by waiting for that BF Sword before going back to shop. The problem is that I have to wait until I get to 2200 gold if I go that route. Having all that damage does no good if they can out-maneuver you (via higher move speeds) since you don't have Boots of Speed, and expecting a player to ALWAYS get to 2200 before they need to go back is a bit silly.

Remember, LoL is not a game that can truly be "taught" to someone...each player must be willing to improvise as they go along. To use the chess analogy again...the more options players have, the stronger their position is. The same is true with LoL...the more options I have, the better I can adapt to the circumstances...which is why I propose going with the Pickaxe first so you have more options and aren't locked into IE for your first big-ticket item. Granted, you can always pad your stats with Doran's, but I think it's a better investment to go with the LW / IE option than the IE component / Doran's option.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-15-2010

Guide updated to include a discussion on Doran's Blade and Shield as viable options. Also updated the shopping list for the first trip back to base. Thanks to SoFFacet and MeditationError for their contributions to the guide!


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-17-2010

I have made some changes to the item build order...I've included a recommended item build order for those who prefer that.

I still recommend that you assess each purchase based on the circumstances, but I figured it could really help newer players understand what is valuable.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-20-2010

Guide updated to include Madred's Bloodrazor as a viable means of getting attack speed and damage boost.

Only viable when used to counter high HP champs with if you don't have a LW and they don't have magic resistance.


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Kamaro

Senior Member

12-20-2010

I always get Philo stone, avarice blade and +1 boots (to +3 boots) first. After that a B.F. sword, a Brutalizer and then I.E.
After that turn Philo into Shurelya's and Avarice and Brutalizer into Youmuu's. 2 items that give you movespeed, combined with ghost and flash it makes you great at kiting. (Though replacing one of those with teleport could work as hitting people from your lane early game is lots of fun

Is this build any good?


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

12-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaro View Post
I always get Philo stone, avarice blade and +1 boots (to +3 boots) first. After that a B.F. sword, a Brutalizer and then I.E.
After that turn Philo into Shurelya's and Avarice and Brutalizer into Youmuu's. 2 items that give you movespeed, combined with ghost and flash it makes you great at kiting. (Though replacing one of those with teleport could work as hitting people from your lane early game is lots of fun

Is this build any good?
No. Gold/sec takes too long to turn a profit, and with proper runes/masteries and play, you shouldn't need regen items. Instead, get attack damage pronto.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaro View Post
I always get Philo stone, avarice blade and +1 boots (to +3 boots) first. After that a B.F. sword, a Brutalizer and then I.E.
After that turn Philo into Shurelya's and Avarice and Brutalizer into Youmuu's. 2 items that give you movespeed, combined with ghost and flash it makes you great at kiting. (Though replacing one of those with teleport could work as hitting people from your lane early game is lots of fun

Is this build any good?
As SoFFacet has already mentioned, the build you described is really not that great. You will be doing almost no damage to enemies, and they're going to be banging on your head like mad.

Also, if you get the extra damage instead of the gold / 10 items early on, you can easily farm up the gold you would miss out on. Think of it like this...

With 2 gold/10 items, you earn 30 gold per minute. Each minion kill is worth about 12 gold. So, just kill 3 additional minions each minute with your extra damage, and you've basically made up for your gold/10 items, AND you're that much stronger as a damage-dealer to enemy champs.


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Keirash

Junior Member

12-22-2010

Some masteries are easy to pick for Ashe but for a newer player like me who wants to advance into Ashe saying is 21 / 8 / 1 is a bit to plain. As I said I am fairly new at speccing masteries and runes for a certain champion and I would love if you make a screenshot of the build and have it in a thumbnail or uploaded to some site. Great guide, I am certain to follow it and will train on said points.
(I know you explained some of them but if you still could post a full picture of it or just write it would be awesome)

Thanks for sharing and the time to write,
Keirash