[Guide] Ashe - The Team Queen

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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Np. I didn't comment on your guide before but the strategy sections are pretty nice.

Regarding items, Brut+YGB is pretty nice for the CDR (moar Volleyz), but IE is usually regarded as the better choice since you're supposed to perma-green-pot yourself after you get it, which turns out to be ridiculously strong. Food for thought.
Good points.

I believe if you check out the Early Game section, you will find that I suggest going with Infinity Edge first (by getting BF Sword). The other options are if you can't get the BF Sword due to a rough start, or a pushing opponent.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-11-2010

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Originally Posted by Loonybin View Post
Good guide but "I know the lifesteal is small but it really helps in laning" is wrong. No it doesn't. When last hitting you'll get like 2 hp per kill.
Why thanks!

Well, I realize that if all you're doing is last hitting, you're not getting much HP...however, I'm a big advocate of learning the cadence necessary to get 2-3 hits on creeps while still getting the kill...

For example, attack a creep that your mobs aren't attacking, but that is nearby. Then, when both enemy minions are low HP, shoot Volley to get both kills...This keeps your HP up (via the life steal) and keeps your gold going by ensuring you get the last hit.

I have found that this works wonders!


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-11-2010

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Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
you even say yourself that your job is to lasthit
that means you are not getting hit often
that means 2hp/attack t is enough to keep you in lane until you get your BF/boots or Brut+boots
the blade will help you last hitting a lot
it will help you to harass alot

if you have to rely on the HP/5 you played Ashe wrong imho
to clarify it, doran's blade is enough to keep you at 80%+ Health and last hit like a boss against malphite who tries to harass you with Q (notice that I'm not talking about Q spam on cooldown, but whenever he gets the *chance* to hit you with it)
dorans shield is most likely the worse starting item for a full-ranged AD carry.

not to mention you can stack doran's blades but you can't stack dorans shields unless you want to waste your money
Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make...could you clarify a bit more, please?

Quote:
and lets just say it as it is, Ashe doesn't even need mid to carry a game.. on a 2v2 lane, dorans shield is probably even more useless.
I strongly disagree...If Ashe has to share a lane, that's half the gold she would usually get. It just takes way too long for her to become powerful, since only 1 of her non-ultimate abilities can actually deal any damage. Plus, if she's not at mid, there's a good chance that her team will lose middle tower. Ashe's presence at mid is usually enough to keep 2-3 champs at bay during early and mid game, whereas many other middle champions cannot do that.

Can she play side lanes and be effective? Of course! But she's just so well suited to own the middle lane that it seems like a waste. If she goes side, then there's a really good chance that she'll be up against a tank...which really ruins her day early game because she hasn't had enough time to farm up a Last Whisper AND a good damage item.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-13-2010

Guide updated...


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-14-2010

Guide Updated based on the changes in the 12/14/10 patch. Significant modifications to the item section as well as the Early Game Strategy section.


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Profligated

Junior Member

12-14-2010

This is a nice guide Eledhan!

But let me give a bit of input as I love using Ashe as a carry.

Although doran's blade is good as a starting item, the nerf that it carries brings down it's value. Although you get a bit more attack damage, you get less health and lifesteal. Another alternative would be using doran's shield as it wasn't nerfed. By using a doran's shield, you have more survivability than you think: more health, defence, and health regen. The health regeneration does a ton for a ranged carry like ashe because if she's played correctly, should be able to stand back and attack while regaining health. It has saved my life plenty of times when an opposing champion, such as MF, tries to nuke or deal massage damage to me in one go. You'll be surprised how the little added armor does.

Although many people rush IE because it deals massive damage and all the stats help Ashe as a carry, something I can't emphasize enough is getting a Madred's Bloodrazor! The pricing is cheaper and does wonders against a tanky team. Often I would see an Ashe try to go IE and LW against a team full of tanks but by the time you gain 6k gold to purchase the two items, Ashe would have been pushed too far back to gain any gold and exp. With a Madred's Bloodrazor, you scare away tanks such as Garen and Nunu because you deal more damage as they scale with hp. Well why does the +30 attack have any benefit over the +80 attack? The fact that they stacked armor enough that you can't penetrate them is the reason why Madred's Bloodrazor can do wonders. With an additional Ghostblade, you can attack faster, run away or chase when you need to, adds attack, ARMOR PENETRATION, and gives you cooldown allowing you to volley kite and ulti more often. Therefore a Ghostblade + Madred's Bloodrazor will do you wonders. But this build is obviously situational; if you were fighting a team full of squishies, IE + LW would obviously do a ton more than this build.

There is more than just the standard build of IE and LW for Ashe. Also, a bit of lifesteal earlier can help a lot as well because the more hp you have means more survivability. But I'm just saying, this is my approach to ashe.

PS. Madred's Bloodrazor + Ghostblade + Black Cleaver = loads of laughs and giggles as you rip through armor and health. But obviously you have to remember to activate Ghostblade.

Sorry for the long comment! Hope it helps my fellow Ashe players. :]


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

12-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Profligated View Post
This is a nice guide Eledhan!

But let me give a bit of input as I love using Ashe as a carry.

Although doran's blade is good as a starting item, the nerf that it carries brings down it's value. Although you get a bit more attack damage, you get less health and lifesteal. Another alternative would be using doran's shield as it wasn't nerfed. By using a doran's shield, you have more survivability than you think: more health, defence, and health regen. The health regeneration does a ton for a ranged carry like ashe because if she's played correctly, should be able to stand back and attack while regaining health. It has saved my life plenty of times when an opposing champion, such as MF, tries to nuke or deal massage damage to me in one go. You'll be surprised how the little added armor does.

Although many people rush IE because it deals massive damage and all the stats help Ashe as a carry, something I can't emphasize enough is getting a Madred's Bloodrazor! The pricing is cheaper and does wonders against a tanky team. Often I would see an Ashe try to go IE and LW against a team full of tanks but by the time you gain 6k gold to purchase the two items, Ashe would have been pushed too far back to gain any gold and exp. With a Madred's Bloodrazor, you scare away tanks such as Garen and Nunu because you deal more damage as they scale with hp. Well why does the +30 attack have any benefit over the +80 attack? The fact that they stacked armor enough that you can't penetrate them is the reason why Madred's Bloodrazor can do wonders. With an additional Ghostblade, you can attack faster, run away or chase when you need to, adds attack, ARMOR PENETRATION, and gives you cooldown allowing you to volley kite and ulti more often. Therefore a Ghostblade + Madred's Bloodrazor will do you wonders. But this build is obviously situational; if you were fighting a team full of squishies, IE + LW would obviously do a ton more than this build.

There is more than just the standard build of IE and LW for Ashe. Also, a bit of lifesteal earlier can help a lot as well because the more hp you have means more survivability. But I'm just saying, this is my approach to ashe.

PS. Madred's Bloodrazor + Ghostblade + Black Cleaver = loads of laughs and giggles as you rip through armor and health. But obviously you have to remember to activate Ghostblade.

Sorry for the long comment! Hope it helps my fellow Ashe players. :]
Bloodrazor is lackluster because with even one resist item tanks will only take 2-3% damage instead of 4%. Addditionally Razor does almost nothing to improve Volley, her most important asset. Also BC is currently regarded as a universally UP item, to the extent that Riot has said that it will be buffed in the next patch.

As for the new item build promoted in the guide, I'm not sure about rushing LW immediately. Sure it helps Volley now, but the %ArPen won't kick in until much later in the game. That said, the traditional IE/LW/Elixir combo was significantly affected by this patch, so it will be interesting to see what develops.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Profligated View Post
This is a nice guide Eledhan!

But let me give a bit of input as I love using Ashe as a carry.

Although doran's blade is good as a starting item, the nerf that it carries brings down it's value. Although you get a bit more attack damage, you get less health and lifesteal. Another alternative would be using doran's shield as it wasn't nerfed. By using a doran's shield, you have more survivability than you think: more health, defence, and health regen. The health regeneration does a ton for a ranged carry like ashe because if she's played correctly, should be able to stand back and attack while regaining health. It has saved my life plenty of times when an opposing champion, such as MF, tries to nuke or deal massage damage to me in one go. You'll be surprised how the little added armor does.

Although many people rush IE because it deals massive damage and all the stats help Ashe as a carry, something I can't emphasize enough is getting a Madred's Bloodrazor! The pricing is cheaper and does wonders against a tanky team. Often I would see an Ashe try to go IE and LW against a team full of tanks but by the time you gain 6k gold to purchase the two items, Ashe would have been pushed too far back to gain any gold and exp. With a Madred's Bloodrazor, you scare away tanks such as Garen and Nunu because you deal more damage as they scale with hp. Well why does the +30 attack have any benefit over the +80 attack? The fact that they stacked armor enough that you can't penetrate them is the reason why Madred's Bloodrazor can do wonders. With an additional Ghostblade, you can attack faster, run away or chase when you need to, adds attack, ARMOR PENETRATION, and gives you cooldown allowing you to volley kite and ulti more often. Therefore a Ghostblade + Madred's Bloodrazor will do you wonders. But this build is obviously situational; if you were fighting a team full of squishies, IE + LW would obviously do a ton more than this build.

There is more than just the standard build of IE and LW for Ashe. Also, a bit of lifesteal earlier can help a lot as well because the more hp you have means more survivability. But I'm just saying, this is my approach to ashe.

PS. Madred's Bloodrazor + Ghostblade + Black Cleaver = loads of laughs and giggles as you rip through armor and health. But obviously you have to remember to activate Ghostblade.

Sorry for the long comment! Hope it helps my fellow Ashe players. :]
On Doran's Items:
The concept of doing less damage early game is NOT appealing to me. The reason for this is that you have really hindered your ability to push the creep waves back, which can quickly become an issue with Ashe, as a mage opponent can push you back hard.

Doran's Shield also doesn't help you with an AP champ at mid...that in and of itself is enough of a reason to choose the Blade. If you run up against Malzahar, you're choice of Shield just completely messed up your laning presence. Get yourself a Blade and dish out the damage...

On Madred's Bloodrazor:
As is mentioned above by a fellow summoner, players who have enough intelligence to build lots of armor know that Madred's is a decent counter to this, and will build a magic resist item as well. This will SEVERELY inhibit your damage from Madred's...

You mentioned not going with LW + IE... Have you checked out the new Last Whisper? It now has 40 damage and 40% armor pen. No attack speed. So...now it makes even more sense to grab a LW right off...the damage will penetrate tank armor like a charm, and you can then work on IE asap.

Overall, good thoughts, but I still think Madred's is just so expensive... it's really difficult to justify something that is so easy to negate, when you need to get LW and IE anyway. The build you mentioned is probably great on somoene like Warwick, but on Ashe, that build just doesn't make any sense. Black Cleaver's reduction and Ghostblade's penetration doesn't work well with Madred's, so why combine them?


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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Bloodrazor is lackluster because with even one resist item tanks will only take 2-3% damage instead of 4%. Addditionally Razor does almost nothing to improve Volley, her most important asset. Also BC is currently regarded as a universally UP item, to the extent that Riot has said that it will be buffed in the next patch.

As for the new item build promoted in the guide, I'm not sure about rushing LW immediately. Sure it helps Volley now, but the %ArPen won't kick in until much later in the game. That said, the traditional IE/LW/Elixir combo was significantly affected by this patch, so it will be interesting to see what develops.
I don't think I said to rush LW... I believe what I advised was to start with a Pickaxe first so you CAN go LW if you need to, without sacrificing your route to IE. Good cal, though. It's definitely something to consider...

Going with BF Sword first takes too long...go ahead and get your Pickaxe and Boots when you get to 1325 gold, and that way you have options, plus better damage to help you farm and harass early on, whereas trying to farm up the BF Sword before you get anything else is a chore...that's why I recommend going with the Pickaxe first so you have the OPTION of going LW in the event that team fights start up early, in which case you'll need that armor pen to help with any tanks that show up. Make sense?


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

12-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
I don't think I said to rush LW... I believe what I advised was to start with a Pickaxe first so you CAN go LW if you need to, without sacrificing your route to IE. Good cal, though. It's definitely something to consider...

Going with BF Sword first takes too long...go ahead and get your Pickaxe and Boots when you get to 1325 gold, and that way you have options, plus better damage to help you farm and harass early on, whereas trying to farm up the BF Sword before you get anything else is a chore...that's why I recommend going with the Pickaxe first so you have the OPTION of going LW in the event that team fights start up early, in which case you'll need that armor pen to help with any tanks that show up. Make sense?
I don't know about that, I've been going BF first for a long time now. Having less than 3k gold on my first trip back = failure.