Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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RainForrestGump

Member

08-27-2013

If I am standing in a bush, and ziggs throws his little 10 bomb slow thing behind me, the little bombs are completely invisible. Both myself and the bombs are occupying the same bush while Ziggs is not. I can walk over and recieve damage & slow with explosion animation, but no bombs are visible to be skillfully avoided. I have to extrapolate/guess which ones have been popped either by myself or teammates.


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FlayMinion

Junior Member

08-27-2013

What if physical abilities and attacks cast from fog of war reveal the attacker, but abilities that deal magic damage do not reveal the attacker? The projectiles for both types of damage would be be visible of course.
e.g. If Khazix Qs from a bush he would be revealed while if Malphite does his Q, he would not be revealed, although the path the ability takes would be visible.


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Furi Kuri

Member

08-27-2013

I don't like this at all. You want to make it easier for new people, but that force all the current players to relearn how bushs work, and how bush fights would play out.


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CardDemon

Junior Member

08-27-2013

In my opinion nothing you do in the brush should reveal you, you should remain hidden the whole time your are within the brush. Also I think while you are in the brush your area of view should be reduced, by doing so you can reduce the hassle of nidalee's spear, causing her to be near the edge of the brush instead of being somewhere within the area. giving the victim a better chance of launching a counter attack. Another thing that I think would give the brush a better feeling , is that when you walk into it you shouldn't be able to see your enemies inside it. The brush should force you to try and find them inside of it. In my opion these changes would help better the experience of League of Legends.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hey PowerbIade,

Good point. If I step on a Teemo mushroom or Caitlyn trap I probably shouldn't see Teemo/Cait even if they're "in range" of my team's vision and hiding in a brush. I'd say in those cases the trap/shroom is causing the damage, not the champ who put it there.
So long as the "exceptions" are consistent, having exceptions isn't a problem. "Traps" could behave differently to other champion sourced damage - namely, they won't reveal you.


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FlashRebelJr

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanceston View Post
This all just sounds so tricky, because one overall change could make or break a champions strategies. Like Nunu's huge trick is to ult in a brush. In his case, the snowy particles should be revealed in the area, but probably not himself. Even though everyone loves that Ninja ult

This poses a scary threat to any skill shot/targeted spell. I honestly think that if it needs to be one thing across the board, it should be after the spell hits (and does damage), the caster is revealed (if in a brush) for a quick second, only because you can usually tell where they are anyways by the direction of the spell. Ahri's foxfire wouldn't trigger it because it's not a targeted spell or skill shot.

OR

Just change the current ones you listed (Taric, Nunu) that reveal the caster, and instead keep them hidden, and so that would be across the board. Because once again, you already know where they are by where the spell came from.


Delayed AoE abilities, or multiple targeted abilities, are when it would get confusing, like Lux's E, aoe damages/snares, skillshots that go through all targets, etc.

HOWEVER! All SPELLS should be visible AS SOON AS THEY LEAVE THE BRUSH! Like how Akali's stealth change was touched for herself. There have been several discussions about this on the forums (mostly Nidalee's spears "coming from no where") because THAT is when you don't know where the spell came from exactly came from.

I hope all that made sense....
For skillshots, I'm OK with their current mechanic of not revealing the caster, but for sure I really want skillshots themselves to be properly revealed : not only Nidalee can benefit from the nearly invisible and unavoidable spears : I stopped counting the number of times I got hit by Caitlyn's Q on the lane without seeing a single particle of it.

My idea is simple : create a virtual vision area that can go through brushes for everything having vision, and any skillshot passing through this area would be immediatly visible without revealing the caster itself. Also, skillshots should become visible when their in-game model has its center into vision range, and not when the whole model is in vision range. This is the main reason why Nidalee and Caitlyn can fire invisible skillshots, because they have long models, and as they are visible only when entirely in vision area, it is often too late to avoid them.

Targeted spells, however, should definitely remain as they are, because a few champions based on this kind of spell would turn into the most insane and frustrating ambushers ever : imagine Ryze spamming all his spells from a brush while being untargetable since he would not be revealed !


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Mìsaka Mìkoto

Junior Member

08-27-2013

I'm for what people call skillshots not revealing the champion and for point and click skills to reveal the champion.
I also think that in the case of Nunu's ult, it shouldn't reveal. The reason for that is that Nunu in general doesn't have much damage. He can provide a slow every 5 or so seconds, but that isn't even hard cc. Removing the advantage of being invisible while ulting in brush would damage Nunu's potential more.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think the current global "you're revealed right now" particle (Nidalee, Caitlyn, Kog'Maw) is okay. It's not used so often that it would overlap itself much, but the particle is pretty intuitive, especially since it is used in other parts of the game.
Except that Kog'Maw's doesn't reveal stealth; while Nidalee and Caitlyn's do. While the particle idea is good - I think two different particles are needed.


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Grand Eleven

Senior Member

08-27-2013

what about oracle/reveal stacking not working vs invisibility stacking?

Prime scenario: Teemo hides in bush for a few seconds and goes stealth. Now Ashe wonders in with oracles and uses her vision to see who's in the bush. She still wont see Teemo unless she steps INTO the bush with him. Oracles will not reveal a bush hiding teemo despite range because of the way the reveal mechanics work.


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shakenbakeq

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hey guys, just thinking outloud here and I don't want to derail the conversation but as it is related:
Does anyone think there should be a good way to tell if you are being revealed by your own actions (not just standing in a warded brush) and if so any suggestions on how to do this without visually crowding the screen?
I can see 2 ways of doing this that wouldn't crowd the screen but still let you know you can be seen.

One way is to remove the transparency you get from being in a bush. This would not require any additional signals that would crowd the screen, and still be different enough to notice that you are detected.

If that method doesn't work, I would go with a buff to signal that the bush is hiding you, that is removed when you reveal yourself. It's not as obvious as eyes over your head, but it won't be distracting.