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Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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Ashes Boobs

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Yakaru:
Hey Renzokuken,

I'm going to get a bit technical here. I'm not saying this is how it should work, but just how it currently works.

Basically the way vision works is each vision source is evaluated separately:
the sight you get that shows stealth does not 'reveal all stealth in this area' but requires the source of that stealth (e.g. your pink ward outside the brush, your support with oracles, etc.) sight actually see it. So even if your green ward can see inside the brush it doesn't "partner up" with the pink/oracles nearby to see inside it.

If you guys think this could be changed I'm definitely open to talk about it


I think the current "source of the true sight has to see the stealthed object" system works just fine.


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Ladayen

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I feel like alot of these stealth attacks have been compensated for already. Nidalee spears are slow and dodgeable, likewise NuNu's ult is slow to build up and easily interrupted. Revealing Nunu during his ult would be a crippling blow and I believe would make him underpowered and rarely played.


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THE LOVE TONIGHT

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Henry Plainview:
Then maybe they should do something about his core gameplay hinging around what most people would consider a bug?


no one considers his ult stealth a bug


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Yakaru

Senior Software Engineer

08-26-2013

Quote:
CBlazer:
Another annoying/weird edge-case that causes some unintuitive results and, imho, should be fixed:

(A) When I am inside a bush, and the enemy champion is inside the same bush, we can see each other, he autoattacks me, and I step out of the bush a split second later, he disappears instantly and I cannot attack him.

Compare with:

(B) When I am outside a bush, and the enemy champion is inside the bush, and he autoattacks me, he is revealed for the usual duration and I can attack him.


I'm actually quite familiar with the issue you describe as I touched that part of the game just recently and in fact caused the behavior change you request. We changed it back (my current changes are to fix bugs, not change behavior), but this would be very doable if everyone agrees this is preferable


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Konpaku Youmu

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I'm just going to list my ideas for you in here, seeing as you're quite the busy person.

One: Nunu's ult has a blue swirl under targets that are in his ult, and this swirl gets bigger until detonation. This adds readability.

Two. Add a Snowflake to the top of enemy champs like Twitch's 6 stack passive. Instead of it being one constant size, have it grow until detonation as well.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Yakaru:
Hey Renzokuken,

I'm going to get a bit technical here. I'm not saying this is how it should work, but just how it currently works.

Basically the way vision works is each vision source is evaluated separately:
the sight you get that shows stealth does not 'reveal all stealth in this area' but requires the source of that stealth (e.g. your pink ward outside the brush, your support with oracles, etc.) sight actually see it. So even if your green ward can see inside the brush it doesn't "partner up" with the pink/oracles nearby to see inside it.

If you guys think this could be changed I'm definitely open to talk about it


It's just weird that it works that way for Evelynn but not any other form of stealth.



Also, sometimes wards in brush don't see all of the brush that they are in for some reason.


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Masterfiends

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Yakaru:
Hey PowerbIade,

Good point. If I step on a Teemo mushroom or Caitlyn trap I probably shouldn't see Teemo/Cait even if they're "in range" of my team's vision and hiding in a brush. I'd say in those cases the trap/shroom is causing the damage, not the champ who put it there.

by this logic homeguards shouldnt break when someone steps on a shroom. very annoying to sit there for 10 seconds and not get a speedboost


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Yoruichi

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Masterfiends:
by this logic homeguards shouldnt break when someone steps on a shroom. very annoying to sit there for 10 seconds and not get a speedboost


Any damage breaks homeguards, including creeps.


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Astral Yorae

Recruiter

08-26-2013

Hi there Yakaru!

I would think that a simple and interesting way to work this is:
-Instant actions that deals damage reveals the champions as soon as the damage "lands". If it don't deal damage, it won't reveal the user (example: Nasus slow).
-Instant skills have their visual effects shown regardless of the type of skill.
-Persistent effects centered on bush (traps, Singed's glue, Cassiopeia's venom, Morgana's pool, "pets"...) won't be shown and neither will reveal the champion if the ability deals damage afterwards.


Astral Yorae.



EDIT:
There are several small bugs regarding vision too. It seems like it's not polished, and have some odd corners sometimes.
Some examples are:
-Blank spots inside bushs (if you drop a pink and there is a ward in the blank spot, you won't see it).
-Vision corners inside jungle (that also creates a different monster aggro behavior from Blue to Purple team).
-Standartization of "what is" and "what isn't" revealed through the fog of war (Teleport summoner spell, Shaco's boxes, warding and others).


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Yakaru

Senior Software Engineer

08-26-2013

Hey guys, just thinking outloud here and I don't want to derail the conversation but as it is related:
Does anyone think there should be a good way to tell if you are being revealed by your own actions (not just standing in a warded brush) and if so any suggestions on how to do this without visually crowding the screen?