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Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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Masalar

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Here's another Question (This is getting a little silly for me). Does the new addition of CC bars under health more easily reveal when you're caught in Nunu's ult?


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innervation

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Yakaru:
I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint -- if I can't explain the rules to a new player in a couple of sentences I'm a bit worried. Sort of an Occam's Razor principle.


Agreed 100%, but I can't think of any possible way to intuitively explain the differing brush mechanics of 115 champions and their skills to a new player. If you can I'll give you like a whole bag of e-cookies.


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King K Rool

Senior Member

08-26-2013

What about Shaco's Q if you poof from a bush they can still see the smoke. I don't even know if this is intentional or not but it is very annoying as Shaco. It would be like allowing you to see Zac right before he launches from a bush.


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Guardman

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Two things:

With Nunu him being invisible while charging his ult is a big part of his high moments (and ones where usually even the enemy team admits it was awesome). And is intended behavior. It currently does have subtle cues to look for like the debuff icon and being slowed. Taking this away would be taking away one of the best part of playing Nunu.

Second I am of the mind that only when you deal damage are you revealed. I can think of so many situations where I am hiding in a bush and want to use an ability in the brush before being revealed. It could be setting a shroom as Teemo, charging my Q on Vi, healing myself as Soraka, switching to hammer form on Jayce, pouncing through the brush as Nidalee, or even the aforementioned Nunu ult. The dealing damage on reveal is consistent and does make sure that all the edge cases where using an ability or potential damage dealing that you want to be hidden from your enemy is kept intact.


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Silence Falls

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I feel that skillshots should NOT reveal the user, where point and click abilities should. Point and click abilities always land, skillshots, or Nunu ults, do not.


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VictoryGarenteed

Junior Member

08-26-2013

I think everything is just fine with the way it is now


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Breakstar

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
ZealotsFTW:
What about Shaco's Q if you poof from a bush they can still see the smoke. I don't even know if this is intentional or not but it is very annoying as Shaco. It would be like allowing you to see Zac right before he launches from a bush.

You can see Zac's shadow when he jumps, I believe.

Quote:
Morior Invictis:
I would also like to mention a bug I have noticed. If the enemy has a ward in a bush that someone teleports on, I (the opposition) can still see the teleport animation in the bush even if we do not have it warded at the time.

This creates unfair advantages so that I can know to back off even if I had no vision of the brush.

That was added a while ago, when Teleport was much more popular (especially on top laners). That means it was completely intentional, although it's not impossible they'll change it again.

It was added because it was common to teleport to a ward in a bush (that was either cleared of wards or unlikely to have any) in bot lane, allowing an unstoppable teleport gank, reliably.


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Yakaru

Senior Software Engineer

08-26-2013

Quote:
50mm3r:
I think you should fix the brush bug that makes it so slow moving lock ons can be dodged by going into brush at the right time.

This happens to me all the time as akali. If I cast my Q at a target and they go into brush after i cast it but before it hits them it will often completely disappear. I can run in after them and they wont have the mark on them and my Q will be on cooldown. pretty frustrating burning a chunk of my energy and my main damage spell to have it completely disappear.

Xelnath has confirmed this to be a bug to me; I'm going to investigate it and see if this can be fixed


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naught

Member

08-26-2013

Maybe have skillshots reveal the spot where the caster was at time of casting when said skillshot leaves the brush. Or perhaps just some small indicator that shows where they were (so you don't now see that Nid's teammate is in that spot, but you can tell where she threw the spear from)

Ex: Nid throws a spear from towards the middle of the brush then runs back. Once the spear leaves the brush the small spot where Nid was when she cast the spear will be revealed for 1 sec, or an indicator comes up, or whatever.


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Iron Nick

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Yakaru:

I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint -- if I can't explain the rules to a new player in a couple of sentences I'm a bit worried. Sort of an Occam's Razor principle.


How about this :
The inside of a bush is invisible to a team until one of the following events happen :
1) the bush is warded by the team
2) any creep or champion controlled by the team enters the bush
3) An enemy champion inside the bush actively affects the team's creeps or champions in ANY way (including CC, damage, debuffs...). Note that "actively" means that passive auras (such as Fiddle's passive, Sunfire's cape...) don't count.
4) The enemy team uses an ability that grants vision over the bush or over enemy champions inside said bush (Phosphorus Bomb, Destiny, Nidalee's traps, etc).

I honestly don't think you can make it easier to understand unless you break the balance of the game. The only exception I see would be Nunu's ult, as discussed before, where there should be a compromise.

Quote:
Wichman:
I noticed, and tl;dr, if anybody mentioned Janna's tornado. I'm not 100% sure if it happens everytime, but when i play vs a janna, in bushes, you can see her tornado building up. Do i think a tornado can hide in a bush? Absolutely not. But again it comes up with consistency, it should not be seen beings its not guaranteed damage.


I've never seen it if cast inside the bush (it's possible to "load" it outside even tho Janna is inside), but I hear it everytime. I'm not sure why that happens, there's an inconsistency between what you see and what you hear.