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[8/23/2013] Tentative PBE Changes & Discussion (3.11)

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SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Please respond to this Pwyff, because, as a Fiora player, this is honestly even more frustrating than having your ult cancelled by LeBlanc's passive, or Fizz's Playful/Trickster, or even brush-juking.

Pretty Please? I'll poro-sit for you if you address this.

<3

Quote:
SonicTheHedgedawg:
Please answer this Riot Pwyff :

Can Fiora still die at the beginning or middle of her ultimate?

Because on live, right now, if Fiora is at low health, and uses her ultimate, ay projectile, let's say a standard attack from a marksman, for example, will hit her.

Unlike Fizz, Vlad or Elise who can pop projectiles with a basic ability, or Even Yi, who delays the projectiles until the resolution of his Alpha Strike, Fiora can be hit before her ult does damage, in the middle of her ultimate, or even after only one tick of her ultimate, and die, sending her whole ultimate on its rather large cooldown.

Considering especially that Fiora is widely considered underpowered, if she is still able to die this way, WHY is that the case? Why does standard-ability untargetable abilities trump her ultimate-ability untargetablilty?


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Lillemanden

Junior Member

08-26-2013

How about a Rammus nerf on CS?

Currently most Rammus' just speed around capturing. It isn't too bad with a good team, but so many players just keep pushing and don't watch the minimap.
Maybe it's not fair to Rammus players, but most games against Rammus are just not fun.


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Sagee Prime

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:

I agree Kassadin is strong, and I'm currently playing in Plat. That being said, I don't think he's as completely broken as you present. The one thing that frustrates me is that he can get stomped in lane phase but still come out of it strong (for some strange reason even rushing Catalyst / Tear he does extraordinary damage).

Anyway, definitely something to keep an eye on. But you gotta stop with the crazy rhetoric or it'll be difficult to have a real discussion.


You know honestly thinking about Kassadin I think the only real problem is the duration of his silence. Kass typically throws out his null sphere and follows up rift walk and force pulse dealing heavy burst and then turning around and rifting away before you can even do anything about it. I personally think his Null sphere could probably deal with a small duration reduction and maybe a missile speed decrease so that players playing heavy casters aren't made completely helpless and unable to react.

The only mids I can really think of that typically have no problem with Kassadin are Zed, Lee, and Talon both of which can normally easily pull of a kill at level 6 and keep up with Kassadins roaming. Problem is you have to ban kas if you aren't going to go with these picks.

Anyway I though I'd share some of my thoughts. I think any problems kass possess are associated with his Null sphere and the opportunity for counterplay during his silence.


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Malah

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
I should have clarified more, I suppose, but those changes are map-specific to Twisted Treeline and Crystal Scar.

You've "clarified" multiple times. You don't need to keep clarifying it, people need to attain reading comprehension higher than a third grader.


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Tobasco da Gama

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
You will reveal the enemy in the bush and then damage them.


Could you clarify this? If I'm understanding correctly, Blade Waltz works like this:

Non-stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, damage target.
Non-stealthed target in brush: travel to target, reveal target, damage target.
Stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, don't reveal target, don't damage target.
Untargetable (Zhonya's, etc.) target not in brush: travel to target, don't damage target.
Stealthed/untargetable target in brush: same as above.

So, it seems like the two big changes are as follows:

1) Fiora will travel to any enemy champion in range of Blade Waltz, regardless of whether she can see or target them.
2) Upon arrival, Fiora checks whether she can see or target the enemy champion. If she can, after traveling to them, she deals damage. If she can't, even after traveling to them, she doesn't deal damage.

Is that about right?


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SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Tobasco da Gama:
Could you clarify this? If I'm understanding correctly, Blade Waltz works like this:

Non-stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, damage target.
Non-stealthed target in brush: travel to target, reveal target, damage target.
Stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, don't reveal target, don't damage target.
Untargetable (Zhonya's, etc.) target not in brush: travel to target, don't damage target.
Stealthed/untargetable target in brush: same as above.

So, it seems like the two big changes are as follows:

1) Fiora will travel to any enemy champion in range of Blade Waltz, regardless of whether she can see or target them.
2) Upon arrival, Fiora checks whether she can see or target the enemy champion. If she can, after traveling to them, she deals damage. If she can't, even after traveling to them, she doesn't deal damage.

Is that about right?


As someone who plays a substantial amount of Fiora, on live I can say that Blade waltz works like this:
Fiora's blade waltz will only strike enemy targets which she can see, and even stepping into bush at the right time mid-ult can cancel it, as well as quick invisibility a-la vyne tumble, LeBlanc Mirror Image or Shaco illusion.

It seems like the change means:
Fiora's ultimate will ALWAYS last the full duration, even if you attempt to juke it with invsibility or untargetability, but it will still not do damage to you until you are targetable or visible again.

the ONLY exception to this is brush or corner juking which can no longer cancel her ultimate or avoid its damage. This also means that SHORT invisibility or untargetability will now only cancel PART of her ultimate, which is nice... but even for LONG untargetability, at least it means that if you decide to towerdive Vladimir, you aren't taking tower shots the SECOND he decides to pool.


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Riot Pwyff

Player Communications

Follow Riot Pwyff on Twitter

08-26-2013

Quote:
Tobasco da Gama:
Could you clarify this? If I'm understanding correctly, Blade Waltz works like this:

Non-stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, damage target.
Non-stealthed target in brush: travel to target, reveal target, damage target.
Stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, don't reveal target, don't damage target.
Untargetable (Zhonya's, etc.) target not in brush: travel to target, don't damage target.
Stealthed/untargetable target in brush: same as above.

So, it seems like the two big changes are as follows:

1) Fiora will travel to any enemy champion in range of Blade Waltz, regardless of whether she can see or target them.
2) Upon arrival, Fiora checks whether she can see or target the enemy champion. If she can, after traveling to them, she deals damage. If she can't, even after traveling to them, she doesn't deal damage.

Is that about right?


Correct! I'll snip pieces out of this for the official patch notes just to clarify further.

For those of you asking about Fiora being able to get hit by projectiles even after she begins her ult (I'm assuming as long as they're mid-flight), I'll ask about that. If it's a lot of coding work, it could introduce some risk to a stable build and there are other considerations to take in, but I'll at least raise the point with Volty.

Speaking of build stability, I'll copy paste the same thing I mentioned on EUW about Olaf not being in 3.11 now:

We're actually planning to pull him from this build. With the World Finals coming up, build stability is of incredible importance, so we're being extra careful. If this were just a regular patch we might be okay with trying out Olaf but this isn't the case.

Morello has mentioned that Live Design is happy with Olaf's overall design direction, but there are certain build considerations (bug fixes, etc) to take into account. So there we have that.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:
For those of you asking about Fiora being able to get hit by projectiles even after she begins her ult (I'm assuming as long as they're mid-flight), I'll ask about that. If it's a lot of coding work, it could introduce some risk to a stable build and there are other considerations to take in, but I'll at least raise the point with Volty.


Thank you <3 That's all I can ask for.

If it's too hard to delay damage (since she keeps becoming targetable mid-ult each time she "checks" for her next target) it'd feel more consistent with other abilities if she just popped them altogether.

Anyway, I'll watch your Poros whenever you need!


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FlatCap

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Why is it that the world tournament takes precedent over other player's enjoyment? In regards to pieces of the patch being held back in favour of a more stable live environment for worlds, that is.


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JebusofChrist

Junior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Riot Pwyff:

For those of you asking about Fiora being able to get hit by projectiles even after she begins her ult (I'm assuming as long as they're mid-flight), I'll ask about that. If it's a lot of coding work, it could introduce some risk to a stable build and there are other considerations to take in, but I'll at least raise the point with Volty.

pls and ty

It's just so dumb getting killed mid-ult by random things like Gangplank Q and Annie Q when it SHOULD act exactly like Fizz's E.

Quote:
SonicTheHedgedawg:
-snip-
Smashboards?