I got Plat II playing almost exclusively Swain

First Riot Post
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GoldfishBowl

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I really like Swain, and even though I don't play mages much I wanted to chime in on the fantasy aspect.

When I'm swain, I like feeling monstrous. I may be humble pre-6, but I have a secret. I'm going to hit R, walk over my foes, and start ripping them apart while they futily try to hurt me. Until my mana runs empty (and it does in very short order) I feel oppressive and unstoppable.
...On one occasion I've actually yelled out "F*** you all, I'm Tzeench!" as I tore into a quadra kill. Don't tell anybody.

That monstrous feeling why I do not like the Tyrant Swain skin, actually. In human form it looks great - he's intimidating, he's regal, he's dangerous, he's evil. But, when he ults, he gains monstrous features. He still wears his robe and shoulder pads, he still has his staff. Even though they look awesome he's still got them.
The difference is while Tyrant Swain gains monstrous features, his other skins become monsters. Northern front is my favorite. The snowy owl and the sharp uniform combined with the frighening ultimate form just works.


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MoonshineDawg

Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Still following this post just cause i'm interested in the discussion - but prolly not gonna do pointed responses to questions unless i see something that i can harmlessly jump in on.

And since i've still seen posts about it: Not reworking Swain. Please read the first post u.u

Still, it's given me a lot to think about for QoL changes/improvements that can be made to Swain players, since he's definitely on the clunkier side of things. Thanks for being so clear and concise dudes - i'm really feelin' the birdvibes
This isn't going to end well


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IS1496b8f95ed58e3cab95c

Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by cKumo View Post
What's the issue with snowballing? I never understood why people complain about people snowballing. It's not hard to avoid snowballing someone, you just don't die to them a ton of times and it's fine.

Its not the snowballing thats the problem - plenty of champions snowball really hard and are balanced. Swain is the only snowball character that gets tankier by building more damage thanks to the ap ratio on his heal (which is basically is).

Swains problem is that IF he snowballs, then he can and will 1v5 no problem, but if he doesn't then he struggles to 1v1 someone and therefore stay even gold from farm and kills because of it. his waveclear is poor and if he wants to have the same cs as an enemy laner he sacrifices all his roam potential.

This creates problems in the game because once the assassin snowballs, you focus them down with every ability you have to minimise damage. While they can 1v1 anyone, but it doesn't always mean that they grab a penta kill in ever teamfight.
When Swain snowballs he becomes a tanky dps, who can survive the focus fire of the enemy team with just his ult heals and zhonyas. This creates Swain as a binary character, and binary is boring and unhealthy, because it limits options:

If (Snowballed) { Win game 1v5 }
Else { Hope team can carry you }


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e Caffeine

Junior Member

08-27-2013

I am by no means a Swain master, but Swain is my go-to mid laner. I think he needs two changes:

1. In World of Warcraft their version of CDR, haste, affected damage over time abilities by decreasing the time between ticks. I think Swain would benefit significantly from allowing his ult, q, and e to scale with CDR because it would allow for more interesting itemization choices.

2. He needs to be able to wave clear better as many people have mentioned, and I think his w should be similar to Aatrox's leap and have two circles. The inner circle would be the root and the larger outer circle would be just damage. This outer circle would be big enough to hit two rows of creeps (currently his W just barely misses both rows of creeps.)


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agelesser

Junior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Swain is a pretty powerful champion under the right circumstances, but is typically seen as unpopular. We generally attribute this to his 3 DoT spells and the one delayed skillshot, as deferred reward in our game are appreciated/valued less unless their power is pretty massive (think Death Mark)). That said, a few questions for you sir:

1. Do you feel like you don't have -enough- items to build? Which stats are most important to you as a Swain player? I've always felt like i needed Mana, Mana regen, Health, AP, CDR, Pen, and then Resists - and have often found it difficult to itemize overall.

2. Without buffing Swain (you can err on this a little), do you have any suggestions to make the lives of Swain players easier (QoL) or simply more fun? (PSA: We consider QoL typically as changes that smooth out a champion that aren't power-level focused - adding ratios, ranges, etc don't count typically)

3. What do you feel like is Swain's 'fantasy' as a game goes on - what do you feel defines him? Champions like Ezreal and Vayne want to dart around a fight dealing damage and kiting, Mages like Syndra and Veigar want to set up and then crush their opponent in one blow - what do you think is your 'I am Epic' moment for Swain?

3a. If you do have an endgame fantasy that you think fits Swain, do you think it's working out atm? Are there things you think we could do to improve on it?

(This isn't a precursor to a 'Let's Talk' thread or a Swain rework, just up late watching Gamescom and sincerely interested in what you'd answer as a Swain player.)

Let me know what you think.

This is a fix suggestion

1. Carrion Renewal could work like Mondo's passive work on mana
2. Decrepify,Nevermove,Torment is OK, that makes Swain himself
3.
ult fix suggestion

Ravenous Flock
Cost: 25 Initial Mana Cost Per Second
Range: Self
Swain inspires dread in his enemies by temporarily taking the form of a raven. During this time ravens strike out at up to 3 nearby enemies. Each raven deals damage and heals Swain for half of the damage dealt.
Toggle: Swain transforms into the form of a raven,giving him 3/6/9% movement speed increase, and 3/6/9% damage reduction. During this time, up to 3 lesser ravens strike out at nearby enemies each second, prioritizing champions. Each raven deals 50/70/90 (+20% Ability Power) magic damage and heals Swain for 75% of the damage dealt against champions, and 25% against minions.
When the target of lesser raven died when the raven is flying to it or killed by the lesser raven, the raven would bring the corpse back , Swain will consume the corpse and get 1/2/3 maximum health and mana. The cost to sustain Ravenous Flock increases by 5/6/7 mana each second, up to 50/60/70 at max.(total cost 75/85/95 per second)

I think it could solve some of Swains problem!


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Fubby3

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by agelesser View Post
This is a fix suggestion

1. Carrion Renewal could work like Mondo's passive work on mana
2. Decrepify,Nevermove,Torment is OK, that makes Swain himself
3.
ult fix suggestion

Ravenous Flock
Cost: 25 Initial Mana Cost Per Second
Range: Self
Swain inspires dread in his enemies by temporarily taking the form of a raven. During this time ravens strike out at up to 3 nearby enemies. Each raven deals damage and heals Swain for half of the damage dealt.
Toggle: Swain transforms into the form of a raven,giving him 3/6/9% movement speed increase, and 3/6/9% damage reduction. During this time, up to 3 lesser ravens strike out at nearby enemies each second, prioritizing champions. Each raven deals 50/70/90 (+20% Ability Power) magic damage and heals Swain for 75% of the damage dealt against champions, and 25% against minions.
When the target of lesser raven died when the raven is flying to it or killed by the lesser raven, the raven would bring the corpse back , Swain will consume the corpse and get 1/2/3 maximum health and mana. The cost to sustain Ravenous Flock increases by 5/6/7 mana each second, up to 50/60/70 at max.(total cost 75/85/95 per second)

I think it could solve some of Swains problem!
op


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Tadrin

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Senior Member

08-27-2013

I'm by no means a skilled swain player but I really like the champion as a whole.

I like Swain's whole kit.

I think that the passive is pretty awesome early/mid game when you're in laning phase. I do feel like it becomes a little pointless late game when your team groups and everything gets killed by them. (using an ability to pick up minions will put you on CD and the enemy should pounce)

Q,W,E are all skills I really like and don't think any of them need QoL changes.

In sustained fights his ultimate can be a real issue for him. I think a cap on the mana costs would be very nice. It can be high (not giving numbers because I can't test them) but to let it go endlessly makes it so that a Swain could have to toggle off his ult at some point during a fight and that makes his usefulness drop drastically.


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Ragnar Draconus

Senior Member

08-27-2013

1) Give Swain better base attack damage. Last hitting with him is HARD. Really hard, and you don't have an ability to help you do it. Even at lvl 6 you can't ult + W to clear a wave since you are leveling up E.

2) His itemization is fine I feel. RoA, Liandry's, Abyssal, and Hourglass are all great options.

3) His DoT focus is fine. It adds variety to the lineup of typical burst mages.

4) He feels slow. Really slow. The lack of mobility really hurts. A movement speed buff would probably be appreciated.

5) He would be incredibly strong against solo bruisers in tournament play (already is in soloqueue), but he cant 1v2 whatsoever due to poor last hitting/waveclear.


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Fubby3

Senior Member

08-27-2013

bump


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Phil Nye

Senior Member

08-27-2013

I think one should move some waveclear potential to his ult, so at least there's a little strength to opponents pushing him to tower early, but he doesn't absolutely become balls at pushing back. His passive could do with a change (I liked the mana stacking idea), and one other thing, I think his W should reveal when it catches something.