Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


New Tower Items on PBE

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Weegee7

Recruiter

08-22-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
So while I've seen a lot of 2v1 lanes in LCS, I've never actually had to play against one in a live game. Are 2v1 lanes a real problem or are they just a pro-level issue?


While the frequent lane swaps are kinda ruining LCS, people in solo queue don't do it as much so it's not much of an issue. They also aren't as good at it because of lack of experience in it. You could say it's a pro-level only issue AND a real problem.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
So while I've seen a lot of 2v1 lanes in LCS, I've never actually had to play against one in a live game. Are 2v1 lanes a real problem or are they just a pro-level issue?


Moreso than a pro-level issue, I feel that it's an "organized team" issue, much like 5 man promote, 5 man death squads and "protect the heimer" strategies from pre season 1.

Also, to be clear they are anti-fun to the core, and epitomize toxic game strategy. I don't think that crystal mark exactly solves anything, since, until they get a gank, the duo lane isn't taking tower shots, but the general idea of towers granting protection and strength to their teammates, especially when they are outnumbered, seems like a good avenue to do some testing on.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xelnath

Recruiter

08-22-2013

I'm all for nixing 2v1 lanes as the "best way to play" but I dunno that this is the right way to solve them.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Assyrianlegend

Senior Member

08-22-2013

this is cool and all, but why not give baron and dragon items as well? x.x


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
I'm all for nixing 2v1 lanes as the "best way to play" but I dunno that this is the right way to solve them.

Right, because the duo lane isn't really ever taking tower shots anyway until their jungler comes.

The best way would probably be to penalized lane experience more severely when it is split between two champions, but then that would just nerf bot lane for people playing "normally."
It's possible to ONLY penalize the duo lane when they actually outnumber their lane opponent, but that may have unintended consequences that I can't fully forsee.

Perhaps a mixture of early game tower aura protection either inately or from an opt-in, as well as experience penalties when outnumbering your lane opponent would not be a bad place to start thinking, though it may lead to unfortunate side effects such as actually HURTING yourself by killing one of your lane opponents in a standard bottom lane, or bringing back the roaming meta, though, honestly, I would much prefer those over the current 2v1 meta. Besides, roaming as a viable option was kinda fun, and it let good lane-holding 1 v 2 marksmen like Urgot see some play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Progresso

Junior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
So while I've seen a lot of 2v1 lanes in LCS, I've never actually had to play against one in a live game. Are 2v1 lanes a real problem or are they just a pro-level issue?


Having played from Bronze 1 up to Gold 4 and never seeing it, I'd have to say it is most likely only an issue at high levels of play (Diamond, Challenger), but that doesn't make up for the fact that it is a huge issue at the level of play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Critkeeper

Senior Member

08-22-2013

A sack of gold isn't what a 2v1 lane needs in order to contest the lane.

A sack of health and mana regeneration is what a 2v1 lane needs to contest the lane.

Losing gold is enough of a penalty. Losing trades that end up getting you killed or force you to lose what small gold you could have otherwise cs'd is a pain in the ass. If the tower dropped little bags of mana/health, then atleast you could "hold on for dear life" in the laning phase even when you are getting pushed around and losing gold. Doesn't mean you won't lose your lane though-- we aren't talking about huge numbers, just enough to help you survive a tough "counter lane".

It means pushing is either YOU ARE PUSHING LIKE MAD or DON'T PUSH.

Not some in between thing that only exists to deny your opponent, rather than acquire a tower. Hell I see plenty of people ping the jungler away from towers just so the laner can deny his opponent gold by zoning him away from minions and forcing the tower to kill the creeps. Giving the guy straight sacks of gold isn't the way to go though. What I mean is give him some resources so he can play the game, rather than some gold that likely won't be enough to bounce him back into lane any time soon anyway (atleast not without recalling to spend it).

And there are plenty of champions that just straight push too hard. Put a champion like poppy against someone like zed, and zed just shoves the lane so hard poppy can't actually take cs without forcing her tower to tank minions. Either that or she has to tank the minions herself and put herself in danger. There is nothing holy or special about champions with AOE waveclear, and they shouldn't shut out single target non-waveclear champions just by merit of their braindead gameplay.

GAMEPLAY. Thats the point. People just want to PLAY the game. Give them resources to do that in circumstances they otherwise wouldn't. They don't have to WIN the game or the laning phase, so long as they actually get to PLAY.

Being chainkilled over and over because your opponent clears fast enough to get a 70 cs lead on you is boring as hell.

2v1 lanes are basically able to zone out someone from minions and push up to the tower while clearing wave after wave. If the poor sap in the 2v1 lane had a mana/health font from that push, he might be able to actually compete. It doesn't even have to scale all that well-- it only needs to have "oomph" at early levels, 1-5 or so. Just enough to make it damn near impossible to "cheese the lane" by straight early pushing.

Denying belongs in DOTA not in LOL. Completely different design philosophies.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

emTmyclipin2u

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Dr Clueless PhD:
In my experience, no-one trusts each other enough in solo queue to try it. In theory, a 2v1 lane swap in solo queue would be TERRIFYING, because no-one would expect it, and they certainly wouldn't have the Champions for it (and you would). However, no-one in solo queue trusts their team enough to try anything outside of the standard lane setups (or let them try it, rather).

Playing with 4 friends, I trust them enough to try a lane swap. We're communicating, we can coordinate, and people know what it does and how to execute it (and if not, we can talk through that). Randoms? Our solo lane will end up picking someone who does terribly in a 2v1, and complain all game. The duo will inevitably just farm up top, never push the turret, and certainly never try and kill their solo laner. Meanwhile, the jungler will spend all game complaining in all chat about the troll who suggested we try and lane swap. :/

This combined with the fact that you won't find a lot of top laners that are willing to put themself into a 2v1. The 2v1 goes both ways, it is as unfun for the initiating team as it is for the receiving.

On a side note, I know Zekent actually prefers to 2v1 as Janna top, and actually asks his team to do it. They actually usually oblige too, and win often as well. That said, Zekent is challenger, so most of his teammates both know what they are doing and are willing to use teamwork.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LxLegend

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
I'm all for nixing 2v1 lanes as the "best way to play" but I dunno that this is the right way to solve them.


Would League have duo lanes if there was something for the fifth person to farm?

Right now supports are essentially kept poor not only by vision wars but because they don't farm anything. They give up stats in form of masteries and runes for gp/10.

If they had some thing on the map to farm to get gold while maintaining vision who would keep their support poor in a duo lane instead of letting them farm and have some damage late game?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DreamEaters

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Rivini:
when an enemy picks up the gold, the tower will shout, "THIEF!" and immediately begin attacking them. Yes, the tower must have the speech bubble to complete the effect.


I laughed so hard. +1