Why Tank Sivir might be or IS the best build for Sivir

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DarkOrchid

Senior Member

12-05-2010

IDK about Tank Sivir. I heard it was good but you can't push to your fullest with this build but you will last longer in team fights.

With Recall/ Teleport, you can escape gank attempts easily without losing any health. My guess is Tank Sivir would be useful for really good teams.


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AychAychAych

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacazar View Post
notice that this calculation applies to the dmg spread among all 6 targets when her ricochet is maxed. ad sivir is better when it comes to dealing with fewer targets, her spiral blade is LOTS stronger and thus ad sivir is far better at poking.

and 100 - 22 is 78, not 88. therefore the formula is wrong. completely wrong.
ad sivir is much stronger at farming than tank sivir. why would somebody be able to buy warmog's, atma's AND attackspeed at the same speed a normal sivir buys manamune and a pickaxe. it's just naive to think somebody would buy stark's for tank sivir's sake as well. sry, but your calc has pretty much failed to prove right. instead of doing the maths all the time, try it for once. tell me about your tank sivir results and what you were able to pull of as an actually good sivir.

only because something is creative, it is not good.
nothing to say against a bit of hp on sivir though.
Urgh, that is what I get for doing math at 11 AM in the morning after drinking on saturday. ****, I even thought it was still saturday.
Boomerang combined with Chalice is enough to farm early game. It brings the minions low enough that even weakest ricochets finish them off.
Someone would buy the Starks because the team would mostly consists of people who can also use it, duh.
I am not going to give up so easily, time to do the math again.
Because the damage of the Ricochet itself is constant, the important part of this issue is the interaction of number of attacks multiplied by the amount of AD. Now, number of attacks is (time alive in seconds x attack speed). If I were cruel, I could kill AD Sivir in an instant by saying she will never stay alive with her measly 1770 HP, but that is not really good for this math. Let's leave time alive as an variable. Attack speed of Sivir without any attack speed increasing items and while lvl 3 ultimate is one is 1.627 attacks per second. Efficient AD Sivir gains with the price of Atma's and Warmog's about 146 AD from items, if the price of one point of AD is 37 gold. Combine this with her base AD and you get 247 AD in total.
1.627x[time spent alive in seconds](247(1 + 0.78 + 0.78^2 + 0.78^3 + 0.78^4))
1.627x[1.77xtime spent alive in seconds](164(1 + 0.78 + 0.78^2 + 0.78^3 + 0.78^4))

Time spent alive is the crutch here. My calculated Tank Sivir would survive 1.77 times longer than AD Sivir and IF the max duration of a teamfight is 10 seconds, AD Sivir needs to stay alive more than 5.64 seconds to start doing more damage than Tank Sivir. This all of course changes instantly the AD values change, but I can't do everything. It is Sat- Sunday after all. Why am I even doing math in a hangover, don't ask me.


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AychAychAych

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytorn View Post
First thing--sustained damage is worthless if the teamfight always finishes in 10 seconds from initiation.

Think about it. The best build on Sivir before getting AD scaling on Q was still AD. Now that Q has AD scaling...why on earth would you roll tank?? She has no initiation, no CC, and a single damage-mitigator. Better to rely on your tanks to keep the enemy off your tush than to crutch your laughable survivability.
Sustained damage rules over lategame usually. Burst loses meaning when it can't kill anything. Well, this is how it would be if everything did not scale, but I digress. Whatever works in LoL, sustained damage had its place in DotA.


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Abedeus

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Warmogs, Atma, Frozen Mallet, GA, maybe a bloodthirster and last whisper. Or Void Staff.


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Hoax

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Tank Sivir is a fairly meh gimmick that will never work in solo queue as you need your team to be on the same page but people will try it anyway and much rage will ensue.


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ChaosZeroX

Senior Member

12-05-2010

I hate Warmogs D:


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MinLuck

Junior Member

12-05-2010

did any1 mention Lifesteal?


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Vecuu

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Why play Atmogs when you could play Aura Sivir?

Starks Aegis Soul Shroud gives comparable survivability and team buffs.

And team buffs.

Buffs.


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Ricardo L H

Senior Member

12-05-2010

madreds owns HP WALLS


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Virginity

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Senior Member

12-05-2010

Sivir is not a tank... Building HP does not mean you tank. Sivir cannot tank. A real tank builds Armor + Magic Resist, not pure health. A real tank can initiate a fight, and protects the carries, which sivir does not do.

P.S. Sivir is not a tank.


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