Why Tank Sivir might be or IS the best build for Sivir

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AychAychAych

Senior Member

12-05-2010

What does Sivir have? Lots of attack speed from her ultimate, Boomerang and Ricochet. She scales pretty well with AD, yes we all know this. But her AD scaling has nothing on her durability scaling, her sustained damage. It is funny how you need someone to open your eyes to see these little things, like losing to "joke build" Sivir by a steamroll.

Ricochet is powerful. I won't say OP because I don't want the swarm of forum Trundles on my neck, but it is powerful. It is so much more powerful than Luna's bounce, and this is what makes it so god**** powerful. It is all about sustained damage.
1 + 0.88 + 0.88^2 + 0.88^3 + 0.88^4
That is the formula for doing damage each attack on all of the enemy team. Now, I do not know how the Ricochet targeting AI works, does it take targets by random or favor enemy heroes, but this is it in theory. That is +295% AD. Ricochet TRIPLES her damage output. So who cares if you get to do 5 attacks with your Infinity Edge Sivir after Annie busts your kneecaps, Tank Sivir will win by sheer attrition. She of course would then need a team that can also sustain a long attrition type of warfare, something like Olaf, Anivia etc.

See it like this. Sivir has about 1772 HP at lvl 18. How long does she last in a teamfight with that measly amount of HP? 3 seconds? 5? Buying lot of attack speed and AD, she might have like 250 AD and 2 attacks per second by now. Crits are hard to calculate, but they are strong part of it. Let's go the high road, 10 attacks brings us about 9838 potential damage all around in the team fight. That should kill at least something. Now, tank Sivir. She is going to last lot longer. Now it really depends are we looking at this with kind of money. Unless I am completely wrong, by the time AD Sivir has 250 AD, tank Sivir should have Warmogs, Atmas and some attack speed items. Let's say in both cases someone else brought Starks for Sivir so that she can save some money, maybe Olaf. Warmog's almost doubles her HP to 3142. AD comes to 164 with Atma's. Let's make attack speed equal with AD build, since Tank Sivir will also buy attack speed items in some degree. With the armor and HP, Sivir will last longer, somewhere between 8 seconds and 10 seconds. Let's say it is 8 seconds, since that is the HP bonus (1.6 times more HP) taken to the time of last calculation (5 seconds). It gives her 10326 potential teamfight damage, and this is calculated in favor of AD Sivir mind you.

Now this is just Saturday math of a bored dude, so if you see anything out of place, holla at me. But Tank Sivir is better than AD Sivir when it comes to sustained damage WHICH should be what you want if you pick Sivir. Otherwise you could had like, picked Yi or something. Now on hindsight, I kinda why I spent so much time doing this. I have lost of the control of my life.


EDIT

Yeah I kinda ****ed up the math in the opening post. Better post in page 2.


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AychAychAych

Senior Member

12-05-2010

bump


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Seiuchi

Senior Member

12-05-2010

100-22=?


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AychAychAych

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiuchi View Post
100-22=?
What?


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Sunaj

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Have to remember that its only useful when you are mid or solo, else you cant farm the tank build fast enough. I use it sometimes.


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Dreamcleaver

Senior Member

12-05-2010

300 AD Sivir with 2 stacked BT is scary. Top that with a GA and its gg.


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Vacazar

Senior Member

12-05-2010

notice that this calculation applies to the dmg spread among all 6 targets when her ricochet is maxed. ad sivir is better when it comes to dealing with fewer targets, her spiral blade is LOTS stronger and thus ad sivir is far better at poking.

and 100 - 22 is 78, not 88. therefore the formula is wrong. completely wrong.
ad sivir is much stronger at farming than tank sivir. why would somebody be able to buy warmog's, atma's AND attackspeed at the same speed a normal sivir buys manamune and a pickaxe. it's just naive to think somebody would buy stark's for tank sivir's sake as well. sry, but your calc has pretty much failed to prove right. instead of doing the maths all the time, try it for once. tell me about your tank sivir results and what you were able to pull of as an actually good sivir.

only because something is creative, it is not good.
nothing to say against a bit of hp on sivir though.


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Skytorn

Senior Member

12-05-2010

First thing--sustained damage is worthless if the teamfight always finishes in 10 seconds from initiation.

Think about it. The best build on Sivir before getting AD scaling on Q was still AD. Now that Q has AD scaling...why on earth would you roll tank?? She has no initiation, no CC, and a single damage-mitigator. Better to rely on your tanks to keep the enemy off your tush than to crutch your laughable survivability.


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Crunkie

Senior Member

12-05-2010

The only "tank" item I tend to get is a warmogs. Either that or a BV. We all know that sivir is the best **** farmer in the game. So getting a warmogs with a few BT's lets all that farming turn to pwnage.


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VvlJbKLuRTmQ2kRT

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Warmogs, Atma's, Frozen Mallet. GG. Take teleport and just push push push. With that much hp, you can escape any gank attempt.


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