[Attention Riot] A helpful Teemo review

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Oddiz

Senior Member

12-18-2009

Hey guys. So Teemo has always been my favorite champion, right from the start. I have been playing him ever since I got in the beta, and wrote an extensive guide for him. However, I haven't played LoL all semester, because school is very busy. Coming home for break, I decided to play some, and found some disturbing changes.

I played Teemo AP build, and did very well. Now, that is impossible.

Blinding Dart:
-max damage reduced from 320 to 260
-increased cooldown from 9 to 12 seconds
-blind duration reduced from 4.5 to 4 seconds
-AP ratio reduced from 1 to 0.8

Ok, so I can understand each of these separately. Perhaps dart was too annoying for Yi and and other fighters, and maybe it packed a bit too much of a punch. But all of these combined have done enormous harm to Teemo's ability to be significant in a fight.

Because as an AP build I will have the lichbane, this damage is even further decreased. Just a theoretical demonstration to show you. Let's say I am a Teemo with some AP items and a lichbane (late game my AP is over 500, but let's just say it is 200 right now). Take a 36 second interval of continued fighting and chasing with my team against their team.

Before:
Dart 4 times, dealing 1280(+200) damage, plus 4 lich bane procs for another 200, total blind time of 18 seconds. Total damage of 6720 (plus normal attacks and poison)

After:
Dart 3 times, dealing 780(+180) damage, plus 3 lich bane procs for another 200, total blind time of 12 seconds. Total damage of 3480.

So a total of

This is a SIGNIFICANT decrease in damage output (and attack prevention) for my team. Riot thought it was doing minor changes and minor nerfs, but taken all together in a real game, they cut Teemo's damage dealing power almost in half.

In the one on one scenario, the blinding portion was very necessary. Teemo has no way to run from combat, no targeted slow, so if yi or ashe came at you, your one option was to blind them (or hope they were very close to a shroom). Before, you could keep them blinded for literally half of the fight (4.5 sec blind, 9 sec cooldown), but now that is down to a third (4 second blind, 12 second cooldown). They can pretty much run at you, ignoring the blind time, and kill you before you can blind again. This makes a VERY BIG difference now that Teemo cannot hope to survive one on one encounters.

Bantam Trap:
-duration reduced from 5 to 4 seconds
-slow reduced from 50% to 30%
-timer set to 10 minutes

The 10 minute life doesn't really matter, that is fine. Perhaps the duration from 5 to 4 seconds could also be seen as not a huge problem. But the slow decrease is ridiculous. Teemo has no activated slows, and his move quick turns off if you are hit. His only hope of escape was to run through a mushroom and book it. Now that does nothing. 4 seconds of 30% slow is on par with normal targeted disables, and worse than many. Too often now I am running and as they hit a mushroom, they also cast their slow or disable. They both last about as long, and I am no longer able to get away.

New passive:
-stand still for 4.5 seconds and turn invisible

Now honestly, I would never have guessed that Riot would have made Teemo's passive WORSE. Stand still for 4.5 seconds? Why? There is brush around. And I'm Teemo. I move quick and lay mushrooms and go where I am needed. I blinding dart people and run back. I through poison on them. I kite them through the woods and into my mushrooms. I have no burst damage (especially now). Why on earth would I sit still and go invis? I pop out and dart them once, then die? Riot, I don't want to sound like a whiner, but it looks like you put absolutely NO thought into this ability. It has less than no synergy with his move set.

His old passive was GOOD. It helped my allies. But even more than that, it helped me. It gave vision of his path for like 12 seconds, which meant that if I was being chased through the woods, I could see which way they were following me and not get cut off. It was actually very useful.

Riot, please roll back some of these changes, or do something crazy new. You have taken a very fun champion and turned him into something that cannot do much of anything. I cannot put out significant damage any more, I can't fight 1v1 any more, I can't even reliably run away from anyone any more. I cannot survive and I cannot fight. I cannot fill the roles I used to.


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No Cow Level

Senior Member

12-18-2009

Oh my god the sky is falling.


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JayceJa

Member

12-18-2009

hes right about blinding dart, it was overnerfed
should have got duration manacost and range nerfed, not damage duration and cooldown

hes right about passive, new one sucks
on a different champion it would be fine, on teemo its completely unintuitive and counterproductive

noxious trap is fine though, it just needs the damage portion of the spell to be unaffected by mercury treads


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Oberic

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Senior Member

12-19-2009

Treads need to not break mushroom damage. as treads dont say they reduce poison. The resist was enough already anyways.

Blinding dart was way overnerfed, I accepted the blind reduction, and the AP ratio nerf (im AP teemo with lich too), but the base damage reduced by 60 is a lot. and the cooldown increased by 3 seconds makes a drastic difference, I stopped playing teemo a lot, and only bought him because I had so much fun pre-store with AP teemo. (Every other teemo I saw at the time used recommended items.)

I'd.. almost ask for an IP refund, I'd rather finish my main rune page. As Nidalee traps are more fun now, and aren't broken by treads. (Sheesh man, Nidalee is insanely fun, the first hero that I bought with real money, don't friggin ruin her!!)


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Valthar

Member

12-19-2009

Completely agree with the OP about blinding dart, they killed AP teemo.

The bug with mercury treads needs to realy be addressed as well.

and the passive sucks now.


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TL Phrost

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Recruiter

12-19-2009

As an attack damage Teemo, I see that these nerfs were probably needed. Right now Teemo is the only character with a 100% blind, he is the only character that has a 4 second CC on another physical character, and has map control in the power level similar to cardmaster.

Right now i think he is in a good place, he is strong but not too strong. I had never liked AP teemo because attack Teemo always pushed better (as he does more damage to towers) and didn't have to rely on gimmicky mushrooms to kill anyone. I still love teemo as much as i did before but now if i play any other character i don't feel like i'm useless for most of a team fight because of 1 blinding dart.

Tl;dr- AP teemo sucks, but attack teemo is still good so stop crying

PS: Mercury treads reduction to the actual poison damage is silly
PPS: his passive is still dumb, make it 2.5 seconds and maybe it'll be useful


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EvilVegan

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Senior Member

12-19-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phr0st View Post
As an attack damage Teemo, I see that these nerfs were probably needed. Right now Teemo is the only character with a 100% blind, he is the only character that has a 4 second CC on another physical character, and has map control in the power level similar to cardmaster.

Right now i think he is in a good place, he is strong but not too strong. I had never liked AP teemo because attack Teemo always pushed better (as he does more damage to towers) and didn't have to rely on gimmicky mushrooms to kill anyone. I still love teemo as much as i did before but now if i play any other character i don't feel like i'm useless for most of a team fight because of 1 blinding dart.

Tl;dr- AP teemo sucks, but attack teemo is still good so stop crying

PS: Mercury treads reduction to the actual poison damage is silly
PPS: his passive is still dumb, make it 2.5 seconds and maybe it'll be useful
Gimmicky mushrroms? So anything that isn't a click a target or auto-attack in a direction is gimmicky?

That would make for a very boring hero set...

I still like AP Teemo, played using OP's guide, and even with the changes to all the items, he's still viable... But I'm admittedly at low ELO (only been playing a short while).

I play AP Teemo with elf skin and AS/Crit Teemo in recon skin, so at least I can enjoy the skin.

They play very differently, but it feels better with AP.

They do need to fix the mercury reduction issue. Wouldn't mind a reduction in the stealth cast (by level?). I've actually used it for effective ganking during an enemy team push. Just stealthed mid lane and came from behind to pick off fleeing heroes...


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GuiltyConscience

Senior Member

12-20-2009

I agree with OP also. I can deal with most of the nerfing, but my biggest problem is the lack of escapability and chasing down for kills. Move quick SUCKS!. Seriously.

A) Running away from 3 enemy champs, happen to pass by on enemy creep, it hits teemo, teemo is now moving at snail pace, teemo gets slowed, teemo is dead.

B) Chasing a champ, all he needs is one more good hit to let poison do the work, he runs by his friendly creeps, teemo does the same, they target teemo, teemo loses kill.

WACK!

Please, change move quick to be more like twitch's Ambush, use it, have up to 1 min of raw speed, and then you have a 6sec CD, or change it to something better... please... no other hero has a skill that can be totally ruined by normal creeps, so why should teemo when that is his only chance of getting away from ganks or ambushes safely.


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Felix Akasaka

Member

12-20-2009

His passive and move quick are probably the two biggest issues with Teemo. With an AD/AS build, the nerfs on the mushrooms and dart aren't significant. I suppose Riot's simply trying to kill that part.


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NoOtherDestiny

Senior Member

12-20-2009

I play an AP Teemo and do pretty well with him, I don't primarily kill people though I do it as a secondary, I more soften up targets, blind players in Ult like Yi and Tryn, use my mushrooms to help in team fights or to help my team escape a losing fight etc.

Now I must say, the only time I've found his passive useful is at the start, while hiding in brush with an enemy coming into brush for an early gank, apart from that it is very useless. I've found that while the mushrooms do pretty well, their slow/dmg is too easily reduced/canceled out, merc treads been one of the reasons.

I think Riot should redo the passive to be more useful, and fix the bug with merc treads reducing the mushroom damage.


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