Atk Speed vs. Crit chance vs. Crit Dmg vs. Armor Pen

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Tymed

The Council

12-18-2009

Which runes are the most effective damage wise?

I would like to hear opinions, thanks.


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Jonny Monroe

Senior Member

12-18-2009

It changes form hero to hero, but I believe the current theorycraft indicates armour pen to be most effective. Although of course, certain situations can make armour pen completely useless (Rammus taunt on an enemy with low armour, for example).

I beleive people worked out that with an infinities edge, you're better off going for crit chance up to around 56% crit chance, and crit damage above that.

As far as game theory goes, crit chance is better since it is by far superior for the first 6-8 levels of the game, where the early advantage will translate into a stronger late-game (for this same reason, a lot of players prefer fixed stat runes over stat/level runes - Would you rather have 3% more crit at level 18 or First Blood?)


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Pen15Mightier

Senior Member

12-18-2009

ATK SPD (post-patch buff aren't terrible, pre-patch they were god awful) and Armor Pen are flat % damage increases (for the most part, they both get a bump when combined with crits)

Crit Chance, and Crit Dmg are a little harder to classify. Crit Dmg is nice, because it's only available on Infinity Edge. Crit Chance is generally neglected, due to the fact that it's easy enough to accumulate (Zeal / Phantom Dancer / Executioner's Calling / Atma's Impaler / Infinity Edge / Avarice Blades / etc.)

I personally feel that if you are playing a DPS hero that relies on slow big hits (Ashe / Gangplank / Tyrnd / etc.) Crit Dmg is the best. On characters that attack fast (Twitch / Yi / Jax) I prefer Armor Pen, as the others are easy enough to get on items. Although one could vouch for Crit Chance, in that they don't need to get as much of it in order to make their fast attacks crit more often.

ATK Speed I only find useful on guys that have abnormally low base attack speeds, where I feel they do best with a boost. Or if they rely on hitting X number of times to activate Y proc (Nunu's Visionary, Jax's Relentless Assault, Udyr's Bear/Pheonix procs). Some champions get natural ATK SPD buffs and thusly, really don't need additional support in this area (Trist / Twitch / Gangplank).

Crit Dmg is really good on Gangplank (regular attacks & Parrrlay!). On Ashe it's also a boon, because her passive stacks her crit chance up as she's switching lanes, so she can easily burst someone down with ult + a hit with 100% crit chance. Tyrndamere is another one, with natural crit chance granted via his Bloodlust stacks. Shaco also likes this due to Deceive giving him 100% crit chance.

Crit Chance I find useful on guys like Teemo (atk power) / Gangplank (helps his early game with Parrrlay) / Twitch / Tristiana. These champions have either naturally high attack speeds, or play for singular big hits, either way, you get more mileage out of the crit early, and can build Infinity Edge without needing much else in the way of up'ing your crit chance.

Armor Pen is more versatile. It's good on any hero who can effectively attack physically. The mid-range guys (not high dmg, not high attack speed), that can really swing either way. If you like to play a mix of champions from the above list, I'd recommend this one, due to the fact that you can make up for your shortcomings with items for most of the others. Armor Pen is also the best vs. Casters at lvl 1 fights and harassing. They typically have little to nothing in the way of armor, and a full set of Marks Armor Pen Runes, and the Mastery talent to negate 6 armor stack up to give a big increase in harssment auto attacks.


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Xeatoa

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Senior Member

12-18-2009

Mine is crit damage for red(Shaco mainly) dodge for yellow(Seriously ownage on every hero, but especially jax) and I have crit dmg on blue but am working towards CD redux.


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bobthegood

Senior Member

12-18-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pen15Mightier View Post
ATK Speed I only find useful on guys that have abnormally low base attack speeds, where I feel they do best with a boost. Or if they rely on hitting X number of times to activate Y proc (Nunu's Visionary, Jax's Relentless Assault, Udyr's Bear/Pheonix procs). Some champions get natural ATK SPD buffs and thusly, really don't need additional support in this area (Trist / Twitch / Gangplank).

Er... people with lower base attack speed get less benefit from attack speed boosts. For example, compare a 50% boost to attack speed on two characters having a base .5 attacks/sec and a .6 attacks/sec.

.5 x 1.5 = .75 which is a .25 attack/sec increase
.6 x 1.5 = .9 which is a .3 attack/sec increase

Making decisions to buff attack speed, base dmg, crits, and armor penetration require many different calculations for every hero against every enemy team lineup and enemy item builds. It's way too situational to say which one is superior. Statistically, the best choice is to balance between them all but each hero can use runes to shore up weaknesses or take advantage of their strengths. Is there a certain hero you are interested in learning about? If so, talk about your item build.


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Tarion

Senior Member

12-19-2009

After the buffs, atck. speed is essentially a free Recurve bow. Before, it wasn't much better than a free Dagger.

That's quite a potent change, tbh. I'd be curious about them now. Don't have the IP to test them though.


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Logo

Senior Member

12-19-2009

It depends on your item build as people above are indicating. If you want a rune page that's ALWAYS useful for your DPS regardless of champ/items then Armor Pen and Crit Dmg are the way to go.

If you know your item build/champion then you can refine it better.