Rushing Locket on Karthus?

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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

12-03-2010

Ashe mid she was good but, she slipped up when she hiit 6 and over extended I got a kill, then hit bot for a triple kill. GG I'm fed and have AA and sorc boots 4 minutes early. They couldn't catch up, until it was 2v5 and they won with me and a crappy melee teamate v 5 I'd kill 4 last would kill teammate and base


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teriudin View Post
I've tried the locket with mixed results. Its good, and I really like the cooldown, but it really slows my damage potential. I feel the tear-> archangel, while it means I'm still squishy for longer, is really needed for the deep mana pool to make defile useful early on.
As long as you are getting middle and can farm, you honestly aren't slowing any damage potential really at all. Karthus farms like a monster, and he can and will maintain a gold and level advantage for most of the game against most people if you are good. Having a level advantage already means higher level spells faster, which equates to more damage. Rushing the locket honestly doesnt hurt it pretty much at all.

Also, early on, you CANT be liberal with defile, nor should you. Getting an early tear isnt going to help you spam it until much later in the game. Smart use of your spells at this stage is all you need to maintain your mana pool and dps without running out. Honestly, you just need to know when and how long to flip on defile. I see people chasing with defile on with them out of the circle for good distances doing no damage with it when they could easily flip it off while their out of range and your lay wasting them on the run. Defile does damage the very moment you turn it on, so yuour losing NO dps having it off. BUT, if you have it on, and they run in range, depending on when the last damage tick occurred, you might not even hurt them for another full second after that.

To put it simply, being smart with defile during early and mid game is all you need, all the tear is doing is deepening a mana pool you often cannot use before you die because of how squishy you are.

Look at it this way, the locket is giving you HP, Mana (deeper mana pool instantly!), health and mana regen! and useful CDR, not to mention the team utility. Your getting this within 12 mins of the game..., i feel this to be far more useful than a tear + whatever else you can get with equivalent gold at THAT stage of the game. Honestly, the way this game is going, being that squishy for that long is really detrimental and hurts his damage potential in any kind of fight more than a bit less AP. With how fast karthus farms, its so easy to spend that gold on the locket and not miss that 2k, its 2k you can get back really fast (faster with the locket!).

Locket is just giving you all the useful stats you need when you need it, tear is giving you stats you dont until much later in the game, and compounding your weaknesses rather than filling them in. You just dont need to rush a tear, karthus can fill it so **** fast.


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-04-2010

UPDATE:

Played a few more games with some friends rushing locket. My record for locket is 7:12 seconds into the game, locket plus boots about 8:45, locket plus sorc shoes and a ward 10 mins flat.

I also had a bad game where i got ganked twice, still got locket and sorc shoes 13:50 into the game. Also....all victories still

So far having a 100% win rate with rushed locket. Typical build is locket -> sorc -> zonya -> rylai -> abyssal/void (depending on MR) -> deathfire grasp -> potions -> sell locket for an instant RoA and more potions depending on how late te game goes.

One game i was raping so hard i just got a mejai after the locket and maxed it out within 10 mins, was hilarious XD

Anyway, nothing but success so far, and the responses in game when people notice what im getting is pretty funny. Its also awesome when you do that well with it and people start wondering how good it really is and converting XD

Cheers!


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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

12-04-2010

After the game we played, you did well with it. I still think its not optimial but wish I'd gone locket as malz against that team 30-100 hp regen passive wasn't enough.

I doubt it would be good for any other char as mid besides malz, sivir, veigar and karthas, it works but slows your butt kicking down(buts they farm well), but survival > dying especially when 2 v 1 sidelane as malz vs blitz/panth like I was worst score I've had in a week.

It works for you, I think it'd be better when you get sidelaned from a a$$hole forcing himself into mid (vlad etc) or when mid vs xin or mord (mords still tasty without it).

I will say you wouldn't fair well vs my karth rushing AA, RoAx2, AA, Zhonya. Once I got AA @ level 7 I'd be pushing you around too much hitting twice as hard. It's what typically happens when I Karth v Karth I get AA they get chalice RoA or something similar.
Once my build gets rolling I can beat almost anyone, as long as I'm mid. Strength of Spirit just owns.
Not to mention my ult at 40 minute mark hits for 1k+ and caps around 1200 damage 850-950 ap.

But player skill is what makes the differance, and you do have that. However your gear choice makes it a lil more difficult mid-game for you, you managed it well I would have oom'd out even with golem buff, but you controlled your mana usage and did very well.(I just don't want to worry about mana).


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Smellis

Senior Member

12-04-2010

I tried this out the other day, granted i havn't played karthus in a loonnnng time (curses for swain being so fun) but i did ok i guess. I had a horrrrrible early game, forgetting how utterly slow karthus moves and went up against morgana for not so fun times. Managed to build locket by 14 mins and have boots too. After that it didn't go too good, I was 3-4 man ganked at mid 3 times so it didn't really save me there and I had a hard time landing kills due to being so gimp from the early deaths.

After mid game and finally got some AP rolling and got that lovely rylai's I finally started to catch up and ended up going 6-6-14 or something. I'll have to try this out again, but right now im kinda thinking Strength of spirit > Locket atm.


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smellis View Post
I tried this out the other day, granted i havn't played karthus in a loonnnng time (curses for swain being so fun) but i did ok i guess. I had a horrrrrible early game, forgetting how utterly slow karthus moves and went up against morgana for not so fun times. Managed to build locket by 14 mins and have boots too. After that it didn't go too good, I was 3-4 man ganked at mid 3 times so it didn't really save me there and I had a hard time landing kills due to being so gimp from the early deaths.

After mid game and finally got some AP rolling and got that lovely rylai's I finally started to catch up and ended up going 6-6-14 or something. I'll have to try this out again, but right now im kinda thinking Strength of spirit > Locket atm.
Karthus is very dependant on farming and maintaining a gold and level advantage on his opponents (hence why he isnt viable on a side lane at all and requires mid). You would have done poorly getting killed that many times that early regardless of your build. Say you built more AP and didnt get the locket, you may have in fact done worse at that point because you are extremely squishy and can and will die in a second in any teamfight putting out subpar damage. Glass cannons have very little place in this metagame at all, if you cant survive to put out your damage your useless. every character should dedicate a slot for survivability, locket to me seems to be the best option for karthus in this regard, and then later when you have a rylais and maxed items, you can sell it off for whatever you want.

I have never used strength of spirit for any caster. though maybe ill give it a try. I cant give up the 9 in offense, and i love the utlility talents, but ill give it a try and se how it goes. I wonder how imba locket + strength of spirit would be then XD


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cheshirebat

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Senior Member

12-07-2010

I roll veigar as 0/21/9 with masteries, utilizing strength of spirit. This turns you into a mini tank early, and quite often nets you kills because a squishy assassin thinks they can kill you. Little do they know you have mad defense, 50 extra hp, and double their regen. I will probably be trying this exact build with karthus.


Basically, going def spec over offensive puts you more in line as a support role... the good news though, is both veigar and karthus have great support utility. They have great cc skills in wall and event horizon, and both still have impressive damage output. a veigar who rushes locket may not be doing 800 damage nukes at lvl 11, but he doesn't need to. I'd imagine this to be similar for karthus. My one qualm with karthus over veigar is his ult does suffer from locket rushing. It is most effective early game, and building AP and grabbing penetration makes it that much more dangerous. Veigar is the reverse, as his ult is meh early on, but becomes impressive late.


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