Rushing Locket on Karthus?

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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokan View Post
Yo

I wrote the locket guide for Veigar, and a friend of mine has been using it on Karthus to some great effect. It should synergize perfectly with Karth's Q. I certainly don't think it's bad on Karthus.

That being said, it seems like it might be a little bit unnecessary. I don't play Karthus, so I don't know- this is pure speculation. If I am wrong, please correct me.

-Your Q already costs next to no mana, so you typically won't have many mana problems in the lane anyways.

-Karthus' laning power is limited mostly by his opponent's ability to dodge- not by his own survivability or mana supply.

So, with this in mind, is locket really necessary on Karthus? From what I understand, he shouldn't be getting harassed out of the lane ever due to how strong his own innate harass is.

Just something to think about, anyways. It might be imbalanced as hell. =p
Let me fill you in as an avid karthus main

1) For the most part, this is generally true, especially since riot made his Q cost a bit less at lower levels. However, you still cannot spam this without a good amount of mana regen simply because of how low the cooldown is, even if it is 20-45 something mana per cast depending on level, because of how quick it can add up.

What most karthus players do (we dont run clarity), is either A) last hit with lay waste, and only use it for harassment every now and then when good opportunities arise for a double damage hit or B), shove lay wastes down their throat (within reason, we still cannot spam it) and use the breathing room and aggressive position generated by it to last hit minions with auto attacks to recoup mana. However, there are some set-backs which flow into your next point:

2) This is for the most part untrue, and depending on the champ mid, can be flat out wrong. Granted, against bad players, obviously your going to rape their face off no problem. The issue happens when you have good players that can dodge lay waste most of them time, and then good players playing champs that are a danger to you even at max lay waste range, which riot has been releasing many of lately (Think vlad and MF). Against good players, not only can they dance around lay waste, making you spend mana for no damage, but can often counter-attack in your animation lag, hitting you back. karthus is squishy with **** regen and health pool, he cannot afford to trade blows constantly like that (or take it and give nothing in return).

Miss fortune for example, with her strut, will run circles, dodging most of my lay wastes with ease even without boots, and pop me with double ups, make it rain and auto attacks, making me take chunks of damage with almost none to her. Im losing mana and health, and she is losing almost nothing. eventually, im forced to sit back and last creeps with lay waste only, because i cannot compete in those skirmishes usually (these are against GOOD opponents, not crappy ones). Vlad is a pain too, because his Q is not targeted, damages me, AND heals him. If you cannot chain several lay waste hits in a row, theres no point because he regens all the damage you do, yet your down a bunch of mana and health and again, must go passive. When you go passive, you let them free farm which is bad. So no, your health and mana play a large role in your dominance againt really good opponents, because you need enough mana and health to out-poke them and force THEM to go passive or die. Of couse, then you have the odd mordekaiser/tanky champ that goes mid where you can spam lay wastes all you want, waste all your mana and barely dent their **** hp (mordekaiser, shen, mundo, xin etc).

So really, a equally skilled opponent playing champs like morde, mf, vlad etc can very well force you out of your lane and laugh in your face while they do it (especially if your having an off-game). His innate harass is indeed very strong, the problem is when your up against other mid champs which can just do it better (and some dont even have to worry about mana either), and with less risk, and usually much less skill involved. Most are just fire and forget, karthus has to play a mind game every second or so just for the chance of damage. Karthus is a very strong middle dont get me wrong, and can really dominate, but his health and mana is just as much of an issue as their ability to dodge.

Now, again, i just havent played enough games to make any solid conclusions, but i feel locket just might be a core first rushed item in most games, especially more even ones when your not being fed to hell by bads.

It is truly awesome getting such a fast locket usually 8-10 mins in after ONE trip back, running back mid and going balls to the wall raping them , forcing them out or killing them in less than a minute, then being able to gank sidelanes immediately after regardless of ult cd. Im falling in love with the locket, so im gonna keep using it and see where it takes me


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-02-2010

@Khamul

Generally:

1) Locket
2) Sorc
3) Zonya
4) Rylai
5) Abyssal/Void staff (depends on how much MR is being stacked by how many ppl)
6) Deathfire/mejai/AA

Once i got some combination of these 6 items, i then sell off my locket and buy either a deathfire or AA to fill in the last slot and top off with perma potions for the rest of the game.

Again, even this is not set in stone, because i will build a banshees, glacial shroud or heck even a thornmail to help counter their team if necessary.


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imhuge

Senior Member

12-02-2010

Wall + Lay Waste harass is probably the strongest in game so I imagine it's really good
The healing helps with solo jungling and CDR is a great stat for Lay Waste

I just don't know if I can play with Teleport in 1 slot


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Istanur

Senior Member

12-02-2010

Quote:
By 10-12 mins, im in lane now with a locket, sorc shoes and a ward or two
The first minion wave in the middle does battle at four minutes. 2250+1100 +90(X amount of wards). = 3,440G minimum. How're you attaining such a mass amount of gold? I could see the locket being viable if you were able to get the locket as soon as some of you people in this thread are claiming but I guess it's just not seeming possible.

I do play Karthus and have a decent win % with him so I know how he works and the only way I can see this occuring is if you do not have a jungler on your team, and you have enough lane control to run over to wraith and wolf spawn and farm those in conjunction with the minions in the lane. This may be possible in Normal and Practice but I just don't know about this...


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-02-2010

you start off with a mana crystal, which brings the total cost down by 400 gold, its not hard getting a locket by the 10 min mark, even if you have a jungler as long as your not missing many creeps. if you get zero kills or assists or neutrals by 12 mins, you would at least have locket and sorc shoes if you dont die. It really isnt that much of a feat, not with karthus anyway


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Elyk Draw

Member

12-03-2010

I couldn't wait to buy Karthus (global ult wtf?!), but I tried him during a free week and realized I was horrible at him. Anyway, I had a quick question about abyssal vs void. In my mind, void should always be better, and this is where I'm hoping you could explain. Void works with your global ult right? Abyssal doesn't? It seems like Abyssal would only be a good pick when you are already stomping them and can afford to go running around in the middle of a team fight with your aoe raging. What do you think?


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Siky

Senior Member

12-03-2010

Void is only worth getting if the enemy team is stacking a lot of MR (disregard tanks unless more than 3 champs are building tanky). Otherwise, Abyssal offers you similar AP, similar penetration on anyone who's not buying more than 1 MR item and gives you a good amount of MR as well.


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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

12-03-2010

Lilaa whatever you say is fine, but my build works far better from level 1-18, first 2 games as karthus in 3 months 37-39 kills with 4-7 total deaths. I wasn't killstealing except one time I killstole twitch for 1 kill durin a Quadra kill( he was with 3 teamates fighting one player while I killed 3 on me solo and his )..

Lockets fine but you will never do better than a AAx2, RoAx2, Zhonya buoild with strength of spirit, even at level 3 when I only have a Tear. It's a drag on your gear progression, that slows your climb to my 1200+ damage ult at e
30 minutes into game.

It might be your playstyle because I'm finishing first AA by time you get locket 10 mins in like you said.
I farm hard and fast and kill golemn by level 6. Between creep waves, holler at me in game if you want I'd like to see you play, if you want you might surprise me. (I'm not a ass just typing on cell phone If I sound like I am)


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Teriudin

Junior Member

12-03-2010

I've tried the locket with mixed results. Its good, and I really like the cooldown, but it really slows my damage potential. I feel the tear-> archangel, while it means I'm still squishy for longer, is really needed for the deep mana pool to make defile useful early on.


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cheshirebat

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Senior Member

12-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady2Die View Post
Lilaa whatever you say is fine, but my build works far better from level 1-18, first 2 games as karthus in 3 months 37-39 kills with 4-7 total deaths. I wasn't killstealing except one time I killstole twitch for 1 kill durin a Quadra kill( he was with 3 teamates fighting one player while I killed 3 on me solo and his )..

Lockets fine but you will never do better than a AAx2, RoAx2, Zhonya buoild with strength of spirit, even at level 3 when I only have a Tear. It's a drag on your gear progression, that slows your climb to my 1200+ damage ult at e
30 minutes into game.

It might be your playstyle because I'm finishing first AA by time you get locket 10 mins in like you said.
I farm hard and fast and kill golemn by level 6. Between creep waves, holler at me in game if you want I'd like to see you play, if you want you might surprise me. (I'm not a ass just typing on cell phone If I sound like I am)
If you got that many kills.... your opponents are doing it wrong.


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