Rushing Locket on Karthus?

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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-01-2010

Just recently been experimenting with rushing locket on karthus as his first major item and so far have been having really good success. With karthus being so beastly in mid, its not hard to buy it outright before 10 mins on your first trip back even if you havent picked up a kill.

I know it doesnt give any ability power, but it does give him health, mana, cdr, and a heal. With the cd of his spells, he can heal back poking damage very easily, top off in the jungle, or on the way for a gank etc. (or heal up right after).

It just feels like its more versatile, giving good survivability, heals from poking to keep up pushes and ganks etc. Plus, he farms so **** well, you can easily begin buying major AP items np right after.

I find it better than rushing RoA or Mejais right off the start, and if you finish off your items, you can always sell it after for a different item late game when the heal and stats arent quite as useful.

Thoughts?


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-01-2010

bumpz


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cheshirebat

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Senior Member

12-01-2010

I think it's quite viable, especially if you have a team that wants to help you, and is willing to early push. Check out the locket guide for Veigar... I feel they function similarly.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=359182

A HUGE difference though, is that karthus has better built in mana regen. Which makes him a bit more of a threat early. The other large difference is that he doesn't have a stun...but has another move that's equally powerful. I'm quite interested in this.


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-01-2010

thats the thread that inspired me to give it a try, and i was surprised at how well it was working. Ive played a large number of games as karth (300+), hes my main, fav champ, love him to death

Hes a really strong mid, you really cant stop him from farming creeps in the worst case scenario, and best case you totally rape the other mid, either way, your gonna get some farm. Normally, I go a rushed RoA, or tear, or cata + mejais or some combination.

Now in mid early game, the biggest problem i had was forcing them out of the lane, denying, or killing them outright but still have enough hp and mana to not be forced to heal myself because my hp and mana is low enough that being ganked is a significant worry and my creeps are usually at their tower by this point, certainly not in a condition to do my own ganking of a side lane if my ulti is down.

Sure, i almost always won my lane in general, and farmed like a beast in it, but beyond my ulti it was hard to be in a condition to run off to a side lane and gank them without my own tower being in danger from my abscence.

The locket has pretty much completely fixed this, and i am super surprised at how well its improving my game (did i mention i dont need to waste money on health potions anymore?). By 10-12 mins, im in lane now with a locket, sorc shoes and a ward or two. The past couple games, the moment i returned with that, my lane was a complete joke. Not only did i force them back to base (or completely kill them) within a minute of my return, but i could zip to side lanes immediately after and help them and be back in time for his return. It was pure awesome. Plus, i have a good chunk of hp and mana (and good regen which does aid his survivability), cdr, and some additional team utility thanks to the locket, which is reaaaallly good that early in the game, oh and its great for pushes!

I havent played enough with it, but so far its really looking promising, and might just become a core first item for almost any game. Sure, you dont have that early AP, but i havent really been missing it, he farms so fast and well its super easy to make it up by that point. Plus, end game you can always sell it off for a better item with more relevant bonuses at that stage.


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cheshirebat

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Senior Member

12-02-2010

Yeah, to me it fits very well into a couple caster builds (i really enjoy it on lux as well, although I don't find it as impressive as veigar) for all the reasons you mentioned. The extra survivability that even just the catalyst gives you is extremely important, and cdr is never a bad thing.

My one issue with locket on casters is that they suck at pushing towers. Sure, they can decimate a wave of creeps, but they won't kill the tower fast. I think for this strategy to work extremely well you need a couple champions who excel at killing towers quickly on your team.


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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

12-02-2010

It is viable and against very heavy harrassment helpful, however a simple solution especially for karthus, but many castersas well AND heavy mana using physical that a archangel/Rod of Age/Manamune is viable even if not best in slot is Strength of Spirit mastery in the defense tree.

I hate to post this, but it is something I've used since beta, and few notice how good it is, because the tooltip is wrong on it. I use it to tank with Rammus/Singed/ChogatN *AD as Blitz/panth/Trundle etc a manamune/AA/RoA gives approx 50 hp per5 once stacked up and starting with no extra mana items alone gives you and extra 10-15 hp regen with no items, just by having the mastery and base mana pool.

A mana gem alone gives 8-10 hp per 5 the regen of a dorians shield!

I build karthus AA, RoA x 2, AA, Zhonya when I'm going max output and have over 200 hp per 5 regen vs around 30 when maxed out. (I'm guessing it's been a few weeks since I've played caster, but its close. It may solve your hp regen, without losing a slot to just get regen, I ALWAYS start karth with AA, and it works like a charm, after survivng a long team fight, I rarely have to blue pill, unless I'm going to shop, toss in a will of the ancients as a caster ie malz/veigar, and laugh as you stand in garrens bladespin and are full hp 30 seconds later.


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Lokan

Senior Member

12-02-2010

Yo

I wrote the locket guide for Veigar, and a friend of mine has been using it on Karthus to some great effect. It should synergize perfectly with Karth's Q. I certainly don't think it's bad on Karthus.

That being said, it seems like it might be a little bit unnecessary. I don't play Karthus, so I don't know- this is pure speculation. If I am wrong, please correct me.

-Your Q already costs next to no mana, so you typically won't have many mana problems in the lane anyways.

-Karthus' laning power is limited mostly by his opponent's ability to dodge- not by his own survivability or mana supply.

So, with this in mind, is locket really necessary on Karthus? From what I understand, he shouldn't be getting harassed out of the lane ever due to how strong his own innate harass is.

Just something to think about, anyways. It might be imbalanced as hell. =p


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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

12-02-2010

It's not typically but against vlad/kennan/teemo they can wear hp down. The Q only doesn't wear mana down, but that's mmostly his harrass/farm skill his E skill can eat 2k mana in a few seconds, which locket would restore with Q harrassment. It's unnecessary usually especially with the info on my post above


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A Mana Potion

Senior Member

12-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady2Die View Post
It is viable and against very heavy harrassment helpful, however a simple solution especially for karthus, but many castersas well AND heavy mana using physical that a archangel/Rod of Age/Manamune is viable even if not best in slot is Strength of Spirit mastery in the defense tree.

I hate to post this, but it is something I've used since beta, and few notice how good it is, because the tooltip is wrong on it. I use it to tank with Rammus/Singed/ChogatN *AD as Blitz/panth/Trundle etc a manamune/AA/RoA gives approx 50 hp per5 once stacked up and starting with no extra mana items alone gives you and extra 10-15 hp regen with no items, just by having the mastery and base mana pool.

A mana gem alone gives 8-10 hp per 5 the regen of a dorians shield!

I build karthus AA, RoA x 2, AA, Zhonya when I'm going max output and have over 200 hp per 5 regen vs around 30 when maxed out. (I'm guessing it's been a few weeks since I've played caster, but its close. It may solve your hp regen, without losing a slot to just get regen, I ALWAYS start karth with AA, and it works like a charm, after survivng a long team fight, I rarely have to blue pill, unless I'm going to shop, toss in a will of the ancients as a caster ie malz/veigar, and laugh as you stand in garrens bladespin and are full hp 30 seconds later.
The issue i have with starting out with AA is simply that you get zero survivability from it. Early on, you dont really need any extra AP, your already outlevelling and out-farming probably everybody on the opposing team, and your higher level spells is more than enough damage output. starting with tear is alright, and its what i usualy used to do, but im still squishy, and health regen with a **** health pool is useless if you die in 2 seconds. Also, i hate RoA for the simple fact that its counterproductive at pretty much every stage in the game no matter when you go for it. The bonuses arent fantastic either, and building 2 never pays off unless the other team runs to die at your feet every minute.

The real benefit i have found rushing a locket is simply that its giving me all the right bonuses at the time when they are most relevant and powerful. Early hp and mana? awesome. CDR for lay waste spam? yes please. Sweet health regen to counter poking and heal from ganks and aid pushing, yes! Bonus mana regen to pretty much negate lay waste cost so i can freely spam it as harassment regardless if im getting last hits on creeps with an auto attack and dont have other mana regen items for the rest of the game? you got it. All this by when? 8-12 mins? by 10-12, you have a locket, sorc shoes and a couple wards. run to lane, rape whoever was mid, force them back, and run around ganking like a boss? Thats just what karth needs to really impact his team beyond an ulti before laning ends.

I dont know, to me, it just gives him everything he needs WHEN he needs it most, and the regen is just enough that its super helpful without being OVERKILL, which i also find important. When the bonuses become rather irrelevant late-game, its super easy to sell it off for a really fast high end 6th item of your choice.

I dont know, ive played about 6 games total with it rushes, and all victories so far, and im quickly falling in love with it. The thing is, in the instance where your doing rather poorly kill wise with an early death or two, i feel like im still helping my team more with a locket than any other item on the whole. If its a game where your not snowballing for whatever reason, the locket just feels like its helping me and my team more.

Either way, im gonna continue playing it out, get more games a data under my belt with it. Still too early for me to make any solid conclusion with it.


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Khaműl

Junior Member

12-02-2010

@Liliaa

What do you build after locket and sorc shoes? Picked up Karthus recently, so I'd love to try this out and experiment more with him.


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